North Korea Mega Thread

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Why exactly can people not realise that the North Korean regime is not suicidal and will not launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike which would not benefit them in any way and result in their annihilation?

Because our own government is insane and has a recent history of launching preemptive attacks that cost trillions and have no long term benefits? Plus now with Trump, we've got a so-called leader who practically salivates at the thought of getting to use the world's largest phallic symbol. We know that we're stupid enough to do it in their shoes.

[pikachu]

...

I think that a strike on North Korea today would be a mistake of horrific scale, but I think it's also important to remember that the Korean War started because of an unprovoked North Korean attack on South Korea, and that if the US didn't intervene, it was more likely than not that the North would've won war. Looking at how the Kims have treated their people over the last 70 years, and how the South is today, I think it's really hard to argue that the best result of the war would've been a unification of the country. Even today, it's understandable that why the North Korean regime wants a nuclear weapon, and it's going to serve as an excellent deterrent for them, but it's also going to prolong the existence of the regime, which is bad for both the North Korean people and the region as a whole.

The problem was not solely that America intervened, which I would've opposed anyway, it is what we did during said intervention. As was noted in the quoted section in my previous post that pertained to our actions during the Korean War, our bombing was indiscriminate of civilian casualties and we completely leveled the country, killed over 1 million North Koreans, and bombed every form of infrastructure, including hospitals. That is what has not only provoked an intense hatred and fear among North Koreans towards us but has allowed the ruling family to feed on that paranoia and resentment for its own gain. Nothing protects a regime from its countless faults quite like militarized nationalism. And, daily, we provide them with more fuel to feed that fire which they use to protect themselves.

North Korea obtained a nuclear weapon following the elimination of a treaty signed by President Clinton. When they felt no progress was being made to ease the sanctions and isolation imposed on their country, they pursued the nuclear route. The sole hope of convincing them to denuclearize is to re-enter negotiations and sign a peace treaty with them. Since the US is determined not to do that, then their nuclear program will continue to advance, as will their provocative displays of power. Sanctions, embargos, and isolation have not worked for years now. It didn't work with Cuba or anyone else, either. Only by negotiations and defusing tensions have improvements, not only in our international relationships, but conditions in those countries occurred. The path to reforming or overthrowing the North Korean regime, without a war with millions of deaths, is through peace and cooperation.

I feel like that's kind of a bit overly sympathetic to the Kims? The regime's only survived because of Soviet and Chinese aid. Beyond that, the North Korean regime treats their people absolutely terribly (I'm sure you know all about the labor camps, famine, punishing children for their parents' crimes, etc), and it's not like this stuff isn't well-known by the people who live there (along with the knowledge that Chinese and South Korean people live significantly better live than them). The crimes of the US isn't why the regime survives; it's that the fact that it terrorizes its people and there's really no way for the North Korean people to organize and resist the regime.

With that, I can't see any scenario in which North Korea denuclearizes; while I think that negotiation is necessary just to ensure that they don't escalate their program anymore. But, at this point, it would be idiocy for North Korea to give up the deterrent, because if there ever was a peaceful uprising (like in Libya), they could easily massacre their people with no fear of a foreign intervention. At this point, the best we can hope for is North Korea to do nothing to the US and its allies. But for the North Koreans themselves, I can't see any scenario where the Kim regime will fall in a peaceful way. The nuclear weapon has guaranteed that.   

[GoTfan]

I actually think Trump wants war. Wars are good for approval ratings. He wants something to improve ihis rating.

Trump is a madman and a danger to the entire world as lons his approval rating is low.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I actually think Trump wants war. Wars are good for approval ratings. He wants something to improve ihis rating.

Trump is a madman and a danger to the entire world as lons his approval rating is low.

I think this is true, but I'm equally confident he wants a short, easy war. North Korea might fight back, which probably scares him. And even if it can't, it'll be a complicated mess to sort out, and Trump hates real work too.  Now, he is amazingly stupid, so it's possible he will think it's a quick walk in the park (especially if he'll get to use those nukes he loves so much).

But I'm hopeful that his babysittersthe White House Staff and Cabinet will successfully use a combination pretty pictures ("See how imperial you look on the Fox News broadcast?"), dire warnings of real consequences ("the Chinese won't let you build a 70-story gold-plated casino in Macau") and colorful distractions ("Somalia is full of pirates, invading it will be awesome!") to keep him distracted from The Button.

[GoTfan]

I actually think Trump wants war. Wars are good for approval ratings. He wants something to improve ihis rating.

Trump is a madman and a danger to the entire world as lons his approval rating is low.

I think this is true, but I'm equally confident he wants a short, easy war. North Korea might fight back, which probably scares him. And even if it can't, it'll be a complicated mess to sort out, and Trump hates real work too.  Now, he is amazingly stupid, so it's possible he will think it's a quick walk in the park (especially if he'll get to use those nukes he loves so much).

But I'm hopeful that his babysittersthe White House Staff and Cabinet will successfully use a combination pretty pictures ("See how imperial you look on the Fox News broadcast?"), dire warnings of real consequences ("the Chinese won't let you build a 70-story gold-plated casino in Macau") and colorful distractions ("Somalia is full of pirates, invading it will be awesome!") to keep him distracted from The Button.

Pfft. His cabinet either is made up of hawks who want war or who are too scared to stand up to him.

[Daniel909012]

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/346030-graham-trump-doesnt-need-congresss-approval-for-north-korea-strike

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Japan has been more like the Swiss than Japan for a long time........this is good to hear.

[Shadows]

Warmongering McCain bashes Trump for fire & fury comment.


"I take exception to the President's comments because you gotta be able to do what you say you're gonna do...In other words, the old walk softly but carry a big stick, Teddy Roosevelt's saying, which I think is something that should've applied because all it's going to do is bring us closer to a serious confrontation. I think this is very, very, very serious…The great leaders I've seen don't threaten unless they're ready to act and I'm not sure President Trump is ready to act...It's the classic Trump in that he overstates things."

https://www.axios.com/mccain-trumps-threat-to-north-korea-very-very-very-serious-2470752413.html

Looks like Graham has surpassed McCain as the bigger Warmonger. He is going to poison the well for decades to come.

[Beet]

I came across an interesting claim from a defector Jang Jin-sung from a few years ago which claims that Kim Jong-un is not an absolute ruler but is a figurehead hemmed in by a shadowy organization called the Organization and Guidance Department (OGD) consisting of an "old boys club network" of Kim Jong Il's former friends, and allied with the military. Under his telling the real leader of North Korea is Hwang Pyong-so. Kim's uncle Jang song-Thaek was protected by his relation to Kim Jong-Il but after Kim Jong-Il's death he was no longer protected so the OGD got rid of him. Also Kim Jong-Il supported moderates in the North Korean Foreign Ministry but after his August 2008 stroke the military gained more influence over foreign affairs, which is why North Korea did not return to Six-Party talks after early 2009. Hence the legacy of the past nine years is a loss of power of the Kim family, and isolation of Kim Jong-un to his much older Generals and the OGD. Interesting theory, in any case.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Yeah, that's not an unimaginable scenario Beet relays to us.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Gorka needs to f**k off https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/10/more-drama-in-trumpland-gorka-publicly-shuns-tillersons-effort-to-scale-back-north-korea-red-line/

[HisGrace]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If he's trying to get America nuked he should just keep on doing what he's doing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/politics/trump-north-korea/index.html

[Beet]

Guam's congressional representative earlier called on Trump not to escalate the situation. I guess he doesn't care what they think.

[Beet]

Incidentally, a Canadian pastor sentenced to a life term in 2015, has been released by the North Korean government after a high-level visit to North Korea by a Canadian official:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lim-released-japan-1.4242094

Justin Trudeau has now achieved more success in dealing with North Korea than Donald Trump.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Gorka needs to f**k off https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/10/more-drama-in-trumpland-gorka-publicly-shuns-tillersons-effort-to-scale-back-north-korea-red-line/

Pretty sure Gorka is a plant.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Incidentally, a Canadian pastor sentenced to a life term in 2015, has been released by the North Korean government after a high-level visit to North Korea by a Canadian official:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lim-released-japan-1.4242094

Justin Trudeau has now achieved more success in dealing with North Korea than Donald Trump.

and Obama

[HisGrace]

Justin Trudeau has now achieved more success in dealing with North Korea than Donald Trump.

How many people have had less success dealing with North Korea than Donald Trump?

[TheSaint250]

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If he's trying to get America nuked he should just keep on doing what he's doing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/politics/trump-north-korea/index.html

Well you should never rule out anything, even a pre-emotive strike, if intelligence suggests it would save Americans. Hopefully it doesn't happen but it could.

[GeorgiaModerate]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If he's trying to get America nuked he should just keep on doing what he's doing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/politics/trump-north-korea/index.html

Well you should never rule out anything, even a pre-emotive strike, if intelligence suggests it would save Americans. Hopefully it doesn't happen but it could.

Everything Trump does is emotive. 

(I know you meant preemptive, but "emotive" is a good one here.

[TheSaint250]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If he's trying to get America nuked he should just keep on doing what he's doing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/politics/trump-north-korea/index.html

Well you should never rule out anything, even a pre-emotive strike, if intelligence suggests it would save Americans. Hopefully it doesn't happen but it could.

Everything Trump does is emotive. 

(I know you meant preemptive, but "emotive" is a good one here.

Lol thanks

Autocorrect...

[KingSweden]

I came across an interesting claim from a defector Jang Jin-sung from a few years ago which claims that Kim Jong-un is not an absolute ruler but is a figurehead hemmed in by a shadowy organization called the Organization and Guidance Department (OGD) consisting of an "old boys club network" of Kim Jong Il's former friends, and allied with the military. Under his telling the real leader of North Korea is Hwang Pyong-so. Kim's uncle Jang song-Thaek was protected by his relation to Kim Jong-Il but after Kim Jong-Il's death he was no longer protected so the OGD got rid of him. Also Kim Jong-Il supported moderates in the North Korean Foreign Ministry but after his August 2008 stroke the military gained more influence over foreign affairs, which is why North Korea did not return to Six-Party talks after early 2009. Hence the legacy of the past nine years is a loss of power of the Kim family, and isolation of Kim Jong-un to his much older Generals and the OGD. Interesting theory, in any case.

Sovietology back in vogue

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I for one welcome the impending destruction of the United States in nuclear hellfire.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Oh god Trump sounds completely clueless in these briefing. Also he is obsessed with Obama

[Doimper]

Asked if he would consider a pre-emptive strike against North Korea to deny it the ability to launch a nuclear attack against the United States, Trump said, "We'll see what happens."

Everyone that voted for this idiot is going to have blood on their hands.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Guam's congressional representative earlier called on Trump not to escalate the situation. I guess he doesn't care what they think.

The crazy fat kid should really worry more about what Mattis said, which is much more to the point than Trump's dance.  Mattis isn't f[inks]ing around and he doesn't make idle threats.