Trump admin. scraps entrepreneurship visa, proposes student visa crackdown

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

US Expected to Scrap Visa Program for Entrepreneurs

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Overseas students would face close scrutiny under proposal floated at DHS

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I was kind of hoping that the Trump wouldn't touch legal immigration and work visas too much, but as expected that was to be a false hope. The student visa proposal especially touches a nerve, since I know quite a few international students at my university.

Remember, this is the same administration that has attacked the H-1B visa program and...well, you know.

Oh well, let's see what happens to our "civic society" now when the best and brightest of the world reject America because of its closed-mindedness!

[Kevin]

I mean I support these programs as well however the student and work visa ones have seen a lot of fraud and abuse over the years too.

[Santander]

The entrepreneur visa idea was outrageous. There is already a relatively cheap investment immigration program - it only requires $500,000 if you choose to invest in an economically-depressed area, which has a pretty broad definition.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Every year?!? Oh ffs.

[Famous Mortimer]

What kind of "entrepreneurs" qualified for this visa? If it was just people setting up convenience stores that only employ relatives of the immigrant, no loss.

[JA]

I love how capital is free to cross borders at will, but labor (or people in general) are not. Sure, you can go invest or open a new plant, mine, or whatever in India, China, etc... but god forbid a student, worker, or entrepreneur from those countries wants to come to America to study, start a business, or work. There's no excuse for targeting international students; that's particularly cruel. Then to add the burden of reapplying yearly? That's such a hassle, could cause enormous instability in their lives, and discourage foreign students from studying here and contributing to our society.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is outrageous

[Famous Mortimer]

I love how capital is free to cross borders at will, but labor (or people in general) are not. Sure, you can go invest or open a new plant, mine, or whatever in India, China, etc... but god forbid a student, worker, or entrepreneur from those countries wants to come to America to study, start a business, or work. There's no excuse for targeting international students; that's particularly cruel. Then to add the burden of reapplying yearly? That's such a hassle, could cause enormous instability in their lives, and discourage foreign students from studying here and contributing to our society.

Don't pretend like you want foreign students here to "contribute to our society".

You want foreign students here because it benefits the foreign students.

[JA]

I love how capital is free to cross borders at will, but labor (or people in general) are not. Sure, you can go invest or open a new plant, mine, or whatever in India, China, etc... but god forbid a student, worker, or entrepreneur from those countries wants to come to America to study, start a business, or work. There's no excuse for targeting international students; that's particularly cruel. Then to add the burden of reapplying yearly? That's such a hassle, could cause enormous instability in their lives, and discourage foreign students from studying here and contributing to our society.

Don't pretend like you want foreign students here to "contribute to our society".

You want foreign students here because it benefits the foreign students.

And the problem with that is...? I want it for both reasons. Our society benefits and so do the foreign students. Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to automatically distrust and hate anyone who wasn't born within the boundaries of particular socially constructed lines on a map. My bad!

[Famous Mortimer]

I love how capital is free to cross borders at will, but labor (or people in general) are not. Sure, you can go invest or open a new plant, mine, or whatever in India, China, etc... but god forbid a student, worker, or entrepreneur from those countries wants to come to America to study, start a business, or work. There's no excuse for targeting international students; that's particularly cruel. Then to add the burden of reapplying yearly? That's such a hassle, could cause enormous instability in their lives, and discourage foreign students from studying here and contributing to our society.

Don't pretend like you want foreign students here to "contribute to our society".

You want foreign students here because it benefits the foreign students.

And the problem with that is...? I want it for both reasons. Our society benefits and so do the foreign students. Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to automatically distrust and hate anyone who wasn't born within the boundaries of particular socially constructed lines on a map. My bad!

Nothing wrong with it necessary but be honest.

You just admitted you don't think American society even exists, you think it's nothing more than artificial lines on a map.

So don't act like you care about it or that the policies you advocate are aimed at benefiting that arbitrary piece of land you don't think is any better than anywhere else.

[JA]

I love how capital is free to cross borders at will, but labor (or people in general) are not. Sure, you can go invest or open a new plant, mine, or whatever in India, China, etc... but god forbid a student, worker, or entrepreneur from those countries wants to come to America to study, start a business, or work. There's no excuse for targeting international students; that's particularly cruel. Then to add the burden of reapplying yearly? That's such a hassle, could cause enormous instability in their lives, and discourage foreign students from studying here and contributing to our society.

Don't pretend like you want foreign students here to "contribute to our society".

You want foreign students here because it benefits the foreign students.

And the problem with that is...? I want it for both reasons. Our society benefits and so do the foreign students. Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to automatically distrust and hate anyone who wasn't born within the boundaries of particular socially constructed lines on a map. My bad!

Nothing wrong with it necessary but be honest.

You just admitted you don't think American society even exists, you think it's nothing more than artificial lines on a map.

Where did I state that? I said that national borders are socially constructed, which they are. Do they exist in nature? No. They're made by man. That doesn't make them irrelevant, but we should acknowledge their limitations, their fluidity, context, and that they're absolutely terrible ways of defining ourselves or other people in a context of good/bad.

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First off, no, I don't think the United States is exceptional or necessarily better or worse than any other country. It's a country just like any other, with its own unique culture and characteristics. So are all others countries. Second, believing that doesn't mean I can't support what's best for the society in which I live or positive policies for any other society or people.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Remember, this is the same administration that has attacked the H-1B visa program and...well, you know.

Hooray. The H-1B visa program sucks.

[KingSweden]

I'm not a fan of tinkering with visas, personally, or leaving which students get to come up to Trump's DHS.

However, capping the % of foreign students at American universities wouldn't be the worst idea. You'd still have to let universities choose who to accept within those parameters

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

I'm not a fan of tinkering with visas, personally, or leaving which students get to come up to Trump's DHS.

However, capping the % of foreign students at American universities wouldn't be the worst idea. You'd still have to let universities choose who to accept within those parameters

A number of state universities in a way view foreign students as a cash cow. Foreign students pay a lot in tuition, fees, and expenses and are often able to contribute more to the local economy than domestic students, given their financial situation. Losing foreign tuition money would require some budgetary re-working at many state universities.

Not that I'm saying it's a reason to forego thinking about a cap on foreign students, just that it's something that would need to be considered.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Don't pretend like you want foreign students here to "contribute to our society".

This foreign student tells you to go f**k yourself.

[KingSweden]

I'm not a fan of tinkering with visas, personally, or leaving which students get to come up to Trump's DHS.

However, capping the % of foreign students at American universities wouldn't be the worst idea. You'd still have to let universities choose who to accept within those parameters

A number of state universities in a way view foreign students as a cash cow. Foreign students pay a lot in tuition, fees, and expenses and are often able to contribute more to the local economy than domestic students, given their financial situation. Losing foreign tuition money would require some budgetary re-working at many state universities.

Not that I'm saying it's a reason to forego thinking about a cap on foreign students, just that it's something that would need to be considered.

Of course, though the "cash cow" mentality is precisely why unis need serious reform. I would cap out-of-state students too, for that matter. Universities treat both as cash cows at the expense of the children of the state's taxpayers.

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

What kind of "entrepreneurs" qualified for this visa? If it was just people setting up convenience stores that only employ relatives of the immigrant, no loss.

Okay, an immigrant setting up a convenience store may not be as flashy as an Elon Musk coming over here to found Teslas, but they still bring benefit to the receiving country. Even if they only employ relatives, they still benefit the economy, whether they buy from suppliers or spend their hard-earned money in the economy.

But hey, if you want only allow native citizens to start businesses, be honest and just say it.

[Badger]

Jesus Christ are you a bigoted twit Mortimer. Only people coming here to set up convenience store set up by their family? You literally think every Indian is APU from The Simpsons don't you

[Santander]

Okay, an immigrant setting up a convenience store may not be as flashy as an Elon Musk coming over here to found Teslas, but they still bring benefit to the receiving country. Even if they only employ relatives, they still benefit the economy, whether they buy from suppliers or spend their hard-earned money in the economy.

Actually, the little economic activity generated by such people alone is not in the national interest, and it is insulting to compare them with genuine investment immigrants, although the investment immigration program is also deeply flawed. The government recognizes this, and the immigrants who buy convenience stores or gas stations and employ their immigrant family members typically immigrate to the US on family-sponsored or diversity lottery visas. In order to qualify for investment immigrant status, you must create at least 10 jobs for Americans, which doesn't happen with these types of businesses.

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

Okay, an immigrant setting up a convenience store may not be as flashy as an Elon Musk coming over here to found Teslas, but they still bring benefit to the receiving country. Even if they only employ relatives, they still benefit the economy, whether they buy from suppliers or spend their hard-earned money in the economy.

Actually, the little economic activity generated by such people alone is not in the national interest, and it is insulting to compare them with genuine investment immigrants, although the investment immigration program is also deeply flawed. The government recognizes this, and the immigrants who buy convenience stores or gas stations and employ their immigrant family members typically immigrate to the US on family-sponsored or diversity lottery visas. In order to qualify for investment immigrant status, you must create at least 10 jobs for Americans, which doesn't happen with these types of businesses.

Oh I didn't mean to insult the "genuine investment immigrants" you just described. I was just responding to Mr. Mortimer's idea that any immigrant who wasn't in that category isn't deserving of coming to the US.

This whole discussion is kind of moot, though, since the proposed entrepreneurship program is clearly designed for "investment immigrants" who have lots of resources:

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Doesn't sound like these guys are going to be convience-store owners, are they Mr. Mortimer?

[Santander]

This whole discussion is kind of moot, though, since the proposed entrepreneurship program is clearly designed for "investment immigrants" who have lots of resources:

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$100,000 is nothing though, and it doesn't even have to be their own money. Why should the government be giving grants to foreign entrepreneurs when there is no shortage of motivated and creative people in the US who could create businesses with the same money?

The current threshold for investment immigrants who are not from a treaty country is $1,000,000 or $500,000 in economically-depressed areas, which gets you a provisional 24-month green card during which time you have to have created 10 American jobs. You don't have to do this as an entrepreneur, you can do this as an investor in a project that is operated by someone else. Most non-treaty investor green cards go to Chinese millionaires with dirty money whose money state governments are only too happy to help launder.

$500,000 is already a low bar that is significantly lower than countries like the UK, which has a minimum investment of £1,000,000, generally higher tax rates, and more immigration restrictions. Investment immigration is to facilitate foreign investment that will definitely be in the national interest. Anything lower than that is just speculative gambling that is not in the national interest. The federal government is not a venture capital firm. If the government wants to lower or adapt this threshold, it should seek bilateral investment treaties with other countries to facilitate freer movement of capital and ideas in both directions.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Okay, an immigrant setting up a convenience store may not be as flashy as an Elon Musk coming over here to found Teslas, but they still bring benefit to the receiving country. Even if they only employ relatives, they still benefit the economy, whether they buy from suppliers or spend their hard-earned money in the economy.

Actually, the little economic activity generated by such people alone is not in the national interest, and it is insulting to compare them with genuine investment immigrants, although the investment immigration program is also deeply flawed. The government recognizes this, and the immigrants who buy convenience stores or gas stations and employ their immigrant family members typically immigrate to the US on family-sponsored or diversity lottery visas. In order to qualify for investment immigrant status, you must create at least 10 jobs for Americans, which doesn't happen with these types of businesses.

Judging by the McAuliffe-Rodham EB-5 scam, you dont even get 10 jobs with the actual investor visas.

[Santander]

Judging by the McAuliffe-Rodham EB-5 scam, you dont even get 10 jobs with the actual investor visas.

Yeah, EB-5 is an absolute disaster.

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

I'm not a fan of tinkering with visas, personally, or leaving which students get to come up to Trump's DHS.

However, capping the % of foreign students at American universities wouldn't be the worst idea. You'd still have to let universities choose who to accept within those parameters

A number of state universities in a way view foreign students as a cash cow. Foreign students pay a lot in tuition, fees, and expenses and are often able to contribute more to the local economy than domestic students, given their financial situation. Losing foreign tuition money would require some budgetary re-working at many state universities.

Not that I'm saying it's a reason to forego thinking about a cap on foreign students, just that it's something that would need to be considered.

Of course, though the "cash cow" mentality is precisely why unis need serious reform. I would cap out-of-state students too, for that matter. Universities treat both as cash cows at the expense of the children of the state's taxpayers.

This seems like a reasonable solution all around. There are a few potential issues that I can think of, but it seems better than the status quo where state universities perversely are encouraged to prefer out of state students for their increased revenue.