Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[The_Doctor]

It's actually, now that I think of it, better for Trump to go before the indictments are handed down by Mueller and his team. That would honestly be enough for the GOP to argue that Trump paid, there was only attempted collusion.

Because, honestly, the business side I think is much, much worse than the Russian stuff. I think Trump has done shady, maybe even outright illegal things on the business side and nobody went after him because he was this apprentice type guy. This is maybe the reason he's never released his taxes.

[EnglishPete]

One major reason GOP operatives will not let Trump stay in power past 2019...

But what can they do about it? Unless Trump's base abandons him, impeachment will be a bloodbath where Trump fights them every step of the way, and he isn't stepping down on his own from the most powerful position in the country.

something tells me Trump does not want this to be a bitter junta like fight. The GOP leadership has ways to signal to the base this is over and start turning on trump and indicating this is no longer a viable situation.

also, new question - are we really sure the base wants to die on this hill? My suspicion, if Ryan starts validating the NYT, if McConnell, and a bunch of GOP high profile people start validating, the base starts wavering, and starts wondering who to listen to, the man in the White House or the other validators? Remember, the GOP united front si essential to telling the base what to think ...

Trump will go if there is a way for him to go peacefully without his family being indicted and tried for crimes. He won't care if Manafort and Flynn go to jail. He will care if it's Jared and Don Jr. I think ironically now would be the best time to issue a pardon and resign. The crimes are still "light' enough.

But it's really getting to the point where the implications and the crimes are really getting to the point where even Pence doesn't have the power to pardon without severe blowback. I don't think at this point with Don Jr's revelations that there is no longer a debate on whether collusion was attempted or not. Collusion most definitely was attempted.

Functionally, politically, it's the working definition of treason.

Did you read the e-mail chain. Nothing in that chain comes close to being 'treason' or even criminal. Don Jr just published it because it corroborates his statements on the matter.

If its 'treason' then presumably you think Hillary Clinton's campaign's collaberation with the Ukrainians was also treason.

[EnglishPete]

Has EnglishPete pulled any muscles bending over backwards to defend grown men who have no need of some foreigner to uselessly carry water for them? Good thing his physical therapy will be covered by the NHS.

I'm having great fun here.

[ApatheticAustrian]

for those late to the party...chronological and annotated summary of the mails


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-s-emails-about-meeting-a-russian-government-attorney-annotated/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.c44b5b04ef14

[Blair]

Has EnglishPete pulled any muscles bending over backwards to defend grown men who have no need of some foreigner to uselessly carry water for them? Good thing his physical therapy will be covered by the NHS.

I'm having great fun here.

Honestly, is this your life?

[The_Doctor]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

Not enough to win a Presidential election. Pence will be President. The gop knows the math.

It isn't enough to win, but it's enough to make the risk arguably greater than the reward unless bigger shoes drop (which, to be fair, I do expect).

Why would the GOP leadership assume shoes aren't dropping?

[EnglishPete]

Has EnglishPete pulled any muscles bending over backwards to defend grown men who have no need of some foreigner to uselessly carry water for them? Good thing his physical therapy will be covered by the NHS.

I'm having great fun here.

Honestly, is this your life?

Is this yours? I post here, I follow and talk about politics, for exactly the same reason everyone else here does, its a hobby. No point having a hobby that you don't think is fun.

[The Mikado]

Are you all serious?



"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

[Mike Thick]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

Not enough to win a Presidential election. Pence will be President. The gop knows the math.

It isn't enough to win, but it's enough to make the risk arguably greater than the reward unless bigger shoes drop (which, to be fair, I do expect).

Why would the GOP leadership assume shoes aren't dropping?

Touché, but I'm of the opinion that politicians (like most people) are severely lacking in foresight

[The_Doctor]

ted, the Republican leadership may lack foresight and may focus on 2018 as their job is to do that but at some point, the ship is sinking and the 55-39% approvals are going to ... well, possibly crater more as time goes by.

you get the idea. We'll see how this plays out.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Are you all serious?



"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

Jared could use the "Often, I simply don't read my mails..." defense.

[Gass3268]

Don Jr is a total Fredo

[Mike Thick]

ted, the Republican leadership may lack foresight and may focus on 2018 as their job is to do that but at some point, the ship is sinking and the 55-39% approvals are going to ... well, possibly crater more as time goes by.

you get the idea. We'll see how this plays out.

Yeah, the only real way is to wait and see, but I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of our leaders

[The Mikado]

Are you all serious?



"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

The reason hes releasing it is because he knows he'll get away with it. The GOP could care less

What does "The GOP" have to do with whether or not Don Jr. is hauled in front of a court on espionage charges?

[Yank2133]

Are you all serious?



"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

The reason hes releasing it is because he knows he'll get away with it. The GOP could care less

No.

He is releasing it to get ahead of a an even more damaging story.

[EnglishPete]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

Well let's see. When the Ukrainian government offered to help the Clinton campaign did the Clinton campaign call the FBI? Or did they actually accept the help? It was the latter wasn't it. Should they have called the FBI instead?

[The_Doctor]

Wait manafort and Kushner were CC"d on this? are you serious?

*starts cackling like a maniac*

[EnglishPete]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

The reason hes releasing it is because he knows he'll get away with it. The GOP could care less

No.

He is releasing it to get ahead of a an even more damaging story.

No he's releasing it because, contrary to the Carlos Slim Blog spin, the e-mail chain confirms that he did nothing illegal.

[The Mikado]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

Well let's see. When the Ukrainian government offered to help the Clinton campaign did the Clinton campaign call the FBI? Or did they actually accept the help? It was the latter wasn't it. Should they have called the FBI instead?

What gave you the idea that I have any interest in defending Hillary Clinton? If there's wrongdoing there, absolutely her campaign should be held liable. But that's not what we're talking about right now, we're talking about the demonstrably proven legal issues that Trump Jr. just admitted to to the whole world.

[The Mikado]

Wait manafort and Kushner were CC"d on this? are you serious?

*starts cackling like a maniac*

The last page of the correspondence is forwarding the whole previous thing to Kushner and Manafort to set up a time for the meeting.

[EnglishPete]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

Well let's see. When the Ukrainian government offered to help the Clinton campaign did the Clinton campaign call the FBI? Or did they actually accept the help? It was the latter wasn't it. Should they have called the FBI instead?

What gave you the idea that I have any interest in defending Hillary Clinton? If there's wrongdoing there, absolutely her campaign should be held liable. But that's not what we're talking about right now, we're talking about the demonstrably proven legal issues that Trump Jr. just admitted to to the whole world.

Its a very good illustration of how disingenuous all this fake outrage over Don Jr's alleged 'crime' is.

[The Mikado]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

Well let's see. When the Ukrainian government offered to help the Clinton campaign did the Clinton campaign call the FBI? Or did they actually accept the help? It was the latter wasn't it. Should they have called the FBI instead?

What gave you the idea that I have any interest in defending Hillary Clinton? If there's wrongdoing there, absolutely her campaign should be held liable. But that's not what we're talking about right now, we're talking about the demonstrably proven legal issues that Trump Jr. just admitted to to the whole world.

Its a very good illustration of how disingenuous all this fake outrage over Don Jr's alleged 'crime' is.

What fake outrage? I am not a fan of campaigns collaborating with agents of foreign powers who want to influence the election to their own purposes.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Orrin Hack, who said Hillary's emails were worse than Watergate, says hey no big deal

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Going down with the ship, eh?

[Mike Thick]

"Watergate but every Congressman is Earl Landgrebe and every time they say 'nothingburger' it gets faster"

[EnglishPete]

Are you all serious?

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

Well let's see. When the Ukrainian government offered to help the Clinton campaign did the Clinton campaign call the FBI? Or did they actually accept the help? It was the latter wasn't it. Should they have called the FBI instead?

What gave you the idea that I have any interest in defending Hillary Clinton? If there's wrongdoing there, absolutely her campaign should be held liable. But that's not what we're talking about right now, we're talking about the demonstrably proven legal issues that Trump Jr. just admitted to to the whole world.

Its a very good illustration of how disingenuous all this fake outrage over Don Jr's alleged 'crime' is.

What fake outrage? I am not a fan of campaigns collaborating with agents of foreign powers who want to influence the election to their own purposes.

Yeah I didn't like Barack Obama turning up to help the 'Remain' campaign during our referendum but what can you do. Oppo research, even oppo research from foreign sources, isn't illegal so don't pretend (to yourself or to others) that you think this is the crime of the century.