Should Cornwall receive home nation status?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Home nation status is the same as England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. As of now, Cornwall is considered no different from the rest of England. But when most people there say "England" they really mean England outside of Cornwall, they used to have their own language, they are mostly ethnically Celtic. It's quite similar to Wales in most ways. So I would support home nation status for Cornwall.

[Emsworth]

Decidedly not. Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland were previously independent kingdoms that were integrated into a single realm. Cornwall, on the other hand, has no such historical claim to home nation status (unless one considers the Dark Ages, which shouldn't really count anyway).

[Virginian87]

Decidedly not. Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland were previously independent kingdoms that were integrated into a single realm. Cornwall, on the other hand, has no such historical claim to home nation status (unless one considers the Dark Ages, which shouldn't really count anyway).

I agree.  All three of these regions had sovereignty until at least the 14th century.  Cornwall has been ruled by the English since the time of William the Conqueror.  This is like asking if the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands should receive home nation status.  Does anybody even know Cornish anymore?  I know Welsh and Manx are making a comeback as languages.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is like asking if the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands should receive home nation status.

Actually those territories are not considered part of the UK but rather "crown dependencies" which basically makes them equivalent to a colony. They are like Puerto Rico.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As of now, Cornwall is considered no different from the rest of England.

No, most people do think of Cornwall as being a bit different. Lots of jokes about Cornwall...

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Which died out a very long time ago. The Forest of Dean has it's own language (which is still alive) but I don't see it being given special treatment...
I do support attempts to revive it though.

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What's "ethnically Celtic" supposed to mean? Don't think there is such a thing...

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No, no it isn't. It's much more like the rest of England than Wales. Wales is a Nation, Cornwall is a county with an unusually strong cultural identidy. Like Yorkshire.

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Only if Yorkshire gets it as well

Seriously though, I think that Cornwall County Council should be given more powers than the other County Council's (for two reasons; 1. Isolation, 2. Cultural stuff) maybe letting it take over the running of the Duchy of Cornwall... but I don't think giving it Nation status is a good idea at all...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually those territories are not considered part of the UK but rather "crown dependencies" which basically makes them equivalent to a colony. They are like Puerto Rico.

Both are just sordid little tax havens these days

[Emsworth]

Actually those territories are not considered part of the UK but rather "crown dependencies" which basically makes them equivalent to a colony.

They're not "colonies." They have complete domestic self-government; the United Kingdom is only responsible for defense and foreign affairs.

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I don't think that's a good idea. The Duchy of Cornwall funds the activities of the Prince of Wales; if the duchy were given to the county, then the Prince would have to rely on taxpayer funds, which would not be particularly popular with many.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't think that's a good idea. The Duchy of Cornwall funds the activities of the Prince of Wales;

Which is why it should be taken away from him

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Or... he could be made to spend less (and quit with the insane Poundbury thing...)

[Democratic Hawk]

No, it's part of England; though I think it was once known as West Wales

Dave

[Emsworth]

I don't think that's a good idea. The Duchy of Cornwall funds the activities of the Prince of Wales;

Which is why it should be taken away from him

To be fair, I believe that it is the Queen's personal property held in trust for future generations, like the Duchy of Lancaster.

[Peter]

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What's "ethnically Celtic" supposed to mean? Don't think there is such a thing...

There is such a thing, though its incorrect to say that the people of Cornwall are mostly ethnically Celtic. Celtic essentially refers to those who originally occupied England, and continued to be the mainstay of the populus until the fall of the Roman Empire, when the Anglo-Saxons came, saw and conquered. The Celtic people were then pushed into the extremities of the island, Cornwall and Scotland mostly.

However, the movement of population since 400/500 AD when that all happened means that such a large population cannot legitimately claim to be principally descended from the Celts, there will be a large amount of Anglo-Saxon blood.

If you give Cornwall home-nation status, then you would have to give the members of the Heptarchy the same: Kent, Sussex, Essex, East Anglia, Wessex, Mercia and Northumbria. Be advised that these boundaries are not the same as exist today, and in som cases are completely different.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There is such a thing, though its incorrect to say that the people of Cornwall are mostly ethnically Celtic. Celtic essentially refers to those who originally occupied England, and continued to be the mainstay of the populus until the fall of the Roman Empire, when the Anglo-Saxons came, saw and conquered. The Celtic people were then pushed into the extremities of the island, Cornwall and Scotland mostly.

That's basically what I meant by saying like Wales. Wales was also oen fo the places where the Anglo-Saxons pushed the original inhabitants. Where the Anglo-Saxons settled outside of Cornwall is now modern day England.

And I know the language is dead now, but the same is basically true of Welsh, Gaelic and Irish. There are revival attempts of course, but no one really speaks those today as their main native tongue.

They're not "colonies." They have complete domestic self-government; the United Kingdom is only responsible for defense and foreign affairs.

Well the same is also true of territories considered colonies, Greenland for example. Perhaps a better analogy though would be psuedo-nations like Liechenstein and Monaco, only not officially independent.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There is such a thing, though its incorrect to say that the people of Cornwall are mostly ethnically Celtic. Celtic essentially refers to those who originally occupied England, and continued to be the mainstay of the populus until the fall of the Roman Empire, when the Anglo-Saxons came, saw and conquered. The Celtic people were then pushed into the extremities of the island, Cornwall and Scotland mostly.

However, the movement of population since 400/500 AD when that all happened means that such a large population cannot legitimately claim to be principally descended from the Celts, there will be a large amount of Anglo-Saxon blood.

Points taken, but I've always taken the view that (with a couple of exceptions) the various groups more-or-less merged into each other in most places.
Certainly there isn't such a thing as ethnically Celtic now... the idea that there is is an 18th century myth.

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My memory is a little fuzzy over this but...

Northumbria being just about everything inbetween the Wall and the Humber... Mercia being most of what is now the Midlands but IIRC went further south and not as far west (does this mean we give Oswestry back to Wales? ), I know that the capital of Wessex was Winchester so it's not really that similer to the SW region nowadays... not sure how different the others are. Which was the City of London in?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's basically what I meant by saying like Wales. Wales was also oen fo the places where the Anglo-Saxons pushed the original inhabitants.

No, I've never bought that theory... it's geographically impossible; the main areas in Wales that can support a large or large-ish population are either a long way from England or very hard to get at... (as an example coastal South Wales is blocked by the Forest of Dean and the River Wye). It seems as though the Marches has always been something of a wild borderland; big Roman fort-city just south of Shrewsbury (Wroxeter) for one thing. Welsh culture as a seperate thing predates the Romans going home anyway...

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Er... that isn't true of Welsh. At all. Lot of people out in Northwest Wales speak Welsh as their first langauge (especially in Merionth, the interior of Anglesey and the Lleyn Peninsula) and get rather militant about it actually... although the whole cottage burning spree is long over.

[Emsworth]

Northumbria being just about everything inbetween the Wall and the Humber... Mercia being most of what is now the Midlands but IIRC went further south and not as far west (does this mean we give Oswestry back to Wales? ), I know that the capital of Wessex was Winchester so it's not really that similer to the SW region nowadays... not sure how different the others are. Which was the City of London in?

I think that London would have been in Essex.

[Cubby]

I voted Yes, because I think Cornwall is cool (Don't ask)

Cornwall is to England what Brittany is to France, a distinct cultural area that is different from other counties in the region. I thought Cornwall was like the Florida of England, since it is the Southern Most part of the British Isles. I don't know if you can swim there though.

Attorney General Al: Do you know any jokes about Cornwall?

[minionofmidas]

No, it should receive full independence within the EU. And introduce the Euro. And of course only Cornish should be taught in the schools. All the tin mines should be reopened. [/sarcasm]

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No, it should receive full independence within the EU. And introduce the Euro. And of course only Cornish should be taught in the schools. All the tin mines should be reopened. [/sarcasm]

Not a fan of Mebyon Kernow then?

[minionofmidas]

No, it should receive full independence within the EU. And introduce the Euro. And of course only Cornish should be taught in the schools. All the tin mines should be reopened. [/sarcasm]

Not a fan of Mebyon Kernow then?

as long as they don't win the elections they're fine with me...

[Peter]

My memory is a little fuzzy over this but...

Northumbria being just about everything inbetween the Wall and the Humber... Mercia being most of what is now the Midlands but IIRC went further south and not as far west (does this mean we give Oswestry back to Wales? ), I know that the capital of Wessex was Winchester so it's not really that similer to the SW region nowadays... not sure how different the others are. Which was the City of London in?

Thats a reasonable map, though its before the kingdom of Northumbria really organised itself. Elmet and Lindsey eventually got subsumed into Mercia IIRC. Northumbria was basically everything North of Mercia up to about where Edinburgh is today, excepting Strathclyde, which single-handedly would eventually retake most of Southern Scotland.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Voted no

They are most like welshmen but its been too long since even the welsh had any sort of connection to them

so no

theyre english now

[afleitch]

As a Scotsman I voted no. Cornwall is not Celtic, certainly not since people have started moving there for the sun and surf!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Very interesting actually... you can tell that no-one's quite sure of the exact boundaries by all the loops and curvy lines (although some look pretty clear; in parts anyway).

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I'm pretty sure that Mercia ate up Elmet. IIRC Powys got a lot bigger as well.

[patrick1]

Bit of a tangent, but are there any quintessential Cornish surnames?  The Welsh have have Jones, Lloyd, Davies etc.- any common Cornish surnames?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Bit of a tangent, but are there any quintessential Cornish surnames?  The Welsh have have Jones, Lloyd, Davies etc.- any common Cornish surnames?

"By the Tre. Poll. and Pen. you shall know the Cornish men"

Examples of a reasonably common Cornish name: Pollard