WaPo: Mueller now investigating whether Trump obstructed justice

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I thought they've been investigating him for this the whole time. It shows how long and muddled the timeline is.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I thought they've been investigating him for this the whole time. It shows how long and muddled the timeline is.

Not at all the timeline is quite clear. From January to May Trump's inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, Jared, and maybe Sessions) are the subjects of the investigation, Trump wanted Comey to tell him an public he wasn't under investigation but Comey while telling him he wasn't the current subject of the investigation won't commit to "you're not under investigation" because the inner circle investigation could easily lead back to him. Then Trump fired Coney an now he is under investigation

[Crumpets]

I thought they've been investigating him for this the whole time. It shows how long and muddled the timeline is.

This is specifically on the charge of obstructing justice. Nobody really knows (although everyone assumes one way or the other) whether or when he has been investigated on charges of colluding with the Russians in interfering with the election.

In the end, it doesn't really matter, though, since both are impeachable offenses.

[TheSaint250]

I read CNN's piece on it.  My question is whether investigators will be able to get more out of Coats and Rogers than Congress did the other day.

[The_Doctor]

1. Executive privilege doesn't extend to a criminal investigation.

2. Trump is at 38-56 and widening.

3. The economy may be slowing down.

4. Obstruction of justice on top of all this doesn't have the best look. The leak probably protects Mueller from being fired now.

5. Your regular reminder that indictments will be coming down especially around Trump's inner circle. Reminder: Trump cannot pay for the legal fees of those under investigation.

6. The GOP is not in a good place. See: 6th congressional district, Georgia. See:  This Is Not How the GOP saw the first six months of the Trump Administration going.

Impeachment or Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

[The Self]

So the era inaugurated by Watergate may well be ushered out by Watergate's genuine successor. Fascinating.

[Lemmiwinks]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

[Crumpets]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

Ah yes. I thought I had him, but maybe my brain just reads McCain and just thinks Graham. Edited.

[The Other Castro]

The main Russia investigation of potential collusion probably would have spun in its heels and gone nowhere. It's never the big crime that gets the man, it's the cover-up. Had Trump not fired Comey, and not tried to influence him or the FBI investigation, his odds of removal would be drastically lower right now. This lack of emotional intelligence doomed Nixon, and it may doom Trump.

[Hindsight was 2020]

The main Russia investigation of potential collusion probably would have spun in its heels and gone nowhere. It's never the big crime that gets the man, it's the cover-up. Had Trump not fired Comey, and not tried to influence him or the FBI investigation, his odds of removal would be drastically lower right now. This lack of emotional intelligence doomed Nixon, and it may doom Trump.

^Bingo^

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

I've been saying this for months. It's in everyone's best interests, and a necessity for Trumpism to survive as the replacement of Reaganism.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

I've been saying this for months. It's in everyone's best interests, and a necessity for Trumpism to survive as the replacement of Reaganism.

IF Trump implodes, the GOP will spend the next couple of decades in the wilderness searching for an identity...it won't become the party of Trumpism

Which is why Trump needs to stand down after a term with his dignity in tact to prevent that implosion.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

I've been saying this for months. It's in everyone's best interests, and a necessity for Trumpism to survive as the replacement of Reaganism.

IF Trump implodes, the GOP will spend the next couple of decades in the wilderness searching for an identity...it won't become the party of Trumpism

Which is why Trump needs to stand down after a term with his dignity in tact to prevent that implosion.

That train has already left the station.

[TheSaint250]

If Trump vacates, this would be the perfect time for the GOP to moderate while keeping some of Trump's economic platform (pushing for fair trade to prevent Rust Belt from absolute destruction, etc.). His presidency could actually do this better than a Cruz one or a Pence one could (since Trump is not as conservative as Cruz).

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

Ah yes. I thought I had him, but maybe my brain just reads McCain and just thinks Graham. Edited.

No way in hell Paul, Cruz (who should but won't because he's a weakling), Corker, and Hatch vote for impeachment. I only see McCain, Sasse, and Graham voting if the evidence is strong enough, with Collins and Murkowski in the mix if the evidence is solid, in which case Trump would and should absolutely be impeached.

If Trump vacates, this would be the perfect time for the GOP to moderate while keeping some of Trump's economic platform (pushing for fair trade to prevent Rust Belt from absolute destruction, etc.). His presidency could actually do this better than a Cruz one or a Pence one could (since Trump is not as conservative as Cruz).

It just wont happen...Trump's entire campaign is based around a central lie that he can stop Globalism. He can't and he never will, nor did he intend to. Remember back in February when he told us he will start tweaking NAFTA...we never heard from him again.

They're working on it. They expect some type of deal by October.

[TheSaint250]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

Ah yes. I thought I had him, but maybe my brain just reads McCain and just thinks Graham. Edited.

No way in hell Paul, Cruz (who should but won't because he's a weakling), Corker, and Hatch vote for impeachment. I only see McCain, Sasse, and Graham voting if the evidence is strong enough, with Collins and Murkowski in the mix if the evidence is solid, in which case Trump would and should absolutely be impeached.

If Trump vacates, this would be the perfect time for the GOP to moderate while keeping some of Trump's economic platform (pushing for fair trade to prevent Rust Belt from absolute destruction, etc.). His presidency could actually do this better than a Cruz one or a Pence one could (since Trump is not as conservative as Cruz).

It just wont happen...Trump's entire campaign is based around a central lie that he can stop Globalism. He can't and he never will, nor did he intend to. Remember back in February when he told us he will start tweaking NAFTA...we never heard from him again.

They're working on it. They expect some type of deal by October.

He never said he would "stop globalism," only fight it as a method of helping American workers.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

Ah yes. I thought I had him, but maybe my brain just reads McCain and just thinks Graham. Edited.

No way in hell Paul, Cruz (who should but won't because he's a weakling), Corker, and Hatch vote for impeachment. I only see McCain, Sasse, and Graham voting if the evidence is strong enough, with Collins and Murkowski in the mix if the evidence is solid, in which case Trump would and should absolutely be impeached.

If Trump vacates, this would be the perfect time for the GOP to moderate while keeping some of Trump's economic platform (pushing for fair trade to prevent Rust Belt from absolute destruction, etc.). His presidency could actually do this better than a Cruz one or a Pence one could (since Trump is not as conservative as Cruz).

It just wont happen...Trump's entire campaign is based around a central lie that he can stop Globalism. He can't and he never will, nor did he intend to. Remember back in February when he told us he will start tweaking NAFTA...we never heard from him again.

They're working on it. They expect some type of deal by October.

He never said he would "stop globalism," only fight it as a method of helping American workers.

No, he said he would stop it to the best he can, and he has. Take Paris for example. Or his reluctance to embrace NATO without securing concessions for America.

[TheSaint250]

If anyone honestly think the GOP would impeach Trump, you're either naive or insane.

We don't need the whole GOP. Just enough to hit 218 in the House and 67 in the Senate. A tall order, but midterms + a hypothetical indictment make it much more attainable.

Would 15 GOP senators vote to impeach?

Well, if it gets to the Senate, it would be a vote to convict, so I assume it would depend on what evidence Mueller puts forward, which will presumably not be for a while. If you're looking for a list of 15 Republicans who might vote against Trump, here's roughly my list based on Clinton-state Republicans, those with a moderate/maverick reputation, and those with a personal beef with Trump:

1. Sasse
2. Paul
3. McCain
4. Heller
5. Flake
6. Collins
7. Murkowski
8. Portman
9. Gardner
10. Rubio
11. Lee
12. Hatch
13. Corker
14. Young
15. Cruz - it would certainly be interesting to watch the battle of "he said my dad killed JFK" vs. "I love how much everyone hates me" play out in Cruz's head

I would add Graham to this list as well.

Ah yes. I thought I had him, but maybe my brain just reads McCain and just thinks Graham. Edited.

No way in hell Paul, Cruz (who should but won't because he's a weakling), Corker, and Hatch vote for impeachment. I only see McCain, Sasse, and Graham voting if the evidence is strong enough, with Collins and Murkowski in the mix if the evidence is solid, in which case Trump would and should absolutely be impeached.

If Trump vacates, this would be the perfect time for the GOP to moderate while keeping some of Trump's economic platform (pushing for fair trade to prevent Rust Belt from absolute destruction, etc.). His presidency could actually do this better than a Cruz one or a Pence one could (since Trump is not as conservative as Cruz).

It just wont happen...Trump's entire campaign is based around a central lie that he can stop Globalism. He can't and he never will, nor did he intend to. Remember back in February when he told us he will start tweaking NAFTA...we never heard from him again.

They're working on it. They expect some type of deal by October.

He never said he would "stop globalism," only fight it as a method of helping American workers.

No, he said he would stop it to the best he can, and he has. Take Paris for example. Or his reluctance to embrace NATO without securing concessions for America.

Oh ok. I was mistaken. Thanks for correcting me

[ProudModerate2]

Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

I've been saying this for months. It's in everyone's best interests, and a necessity for Trumpism to survive as the replacement of Reaganism.

IF Trump implodes, the GOP will spend the next couple of decades in the wilderness searching for an identity...it won't become the party of Trumpism

The "party of trumpism" was a fad and is already dead.
It didn't even last 1 full year.
Many who barely supported pulling the lever for him in November are already deeply regretting their decision.
Men wearing high heel shoes in the 70's lasted much longer than trump.
PS: Ask KingSweden to show you those disco-era pictures he has of him in such shoes.

[ProudModerate2]

Trump refusing to run for a second term as the GOP implodes is highly probable.

I've been saying this for months. It's in everyone's best interests, and a necessity for Trumpism to survive as the replacement of Reaganism.

IF Trump implodes, the GOP will spend the next couple of decades in the wilderness searching for an identity...it won't become the party of Trumpism

Which is why Trump needs to stand down after a term with his dignity in tact to prevent that implosion.

That train has already left the station.

Hear, hear.

[Technocracy Timmy]

The ultimate problem with Trumpism trying to replace the dominant ideology of the GOP is that it didn't have a clear mandate to do so. Trump was a one man army who didn't build a grassroots movement to get elected representatives running on a Trumpist platform into congress beforehand. And he also didn't have the political capital going in to negotiate from a standpoint that would allow him to craft legislation based on his ideology. He garnered only 46% of the electorate and came in with poor approval ratings which have only gone down.

Also what exactly is Trumpism? Is it becasically an Americanized version of the National Front?

[Virginiá]

Also what exactly is Trumpism? Is it becasically an Americanized version of the National Front?

Trumpism is anything that Trump thinks will make people love him, and if possible, make him rich at the same time. Two of the most consistent things Trump has shown a deep desire for in life is to be talked about/liked and to hoard wealth.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The ultimate problem with Trumpism trying to replace the dominant ideology of the GOP is that it didn't have a clear mandate to do so. Trump was a one man army who didn't build a grassroots movement to get elected representatives running on a Trumpist platform into congress beforehand. And he also didn't have the political capital going in to negotiate from a standpoint that would allow him to craft legislation based on his ideology. He garnered only 46% of the electorate and came in with poor approval ratings which have only gone down.

Also what exactly is Trumpism? Is it becasically an Americanized version of the National Front?

PM me tomorrow, because there are a series of posts by FuzzyBear, myself, and others that I feel adequately define what is "Trumpism." I'm too tired and lazy to find it now. I'm sorta burned out for the day on debate

[ProudModerate2]

The ultimate problem with Trumpism trying to replace the dominant ideology of the GOP is that it didn't have a clear mandate to do so. Trump was a one man army who didn't build a grassroots movement to get elected representatives running on a Trumpist platform into congress beforehand. And he also didn't have the political capital going in to negotiate from a standpoint that would allow him to craft legislation based on his ideology. He garnered only 46% of the electorate and came in with poor approval ratings which have only gone down.

Also what exactly is Trumpism? Is it becasically an Americanized version of the National Front?

PM me tomorrow, because there are a series of posts by FuzzyBear, myself, and others that I feel adequately define what is "Trumpism." I'm too tired and lazy to find it now. I'm sorta burned out for the day on debate

You're going to quote something from FuzzyBear ?
God help us !

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The ultimate problem with Trumpism trying to replace the dominant ideology of the GOP is that it didn't have a clear mandate to do so. Trump was a one man army who didn't build a grassroots movement to get elected representatives running on a Trumpist platform into congress beforehand. And he also didn't have the political capital going in to negotiate from a standpoint that would allow him to craft legislation based on his ideology. He garnered only 46% of the electorate and came in with poor approval ratings which have only gone down.

Also what exactly is Trumpism? Is it becasically an Americanized version of the National Front?

PM me tomorrow, because there are a series of posts by FuzzyBear, myself, and others that I feel adequately define what is "Trumpism." I'm too tired and lazy to find it now. I'm sorta burned out for the day on debate

You're going to quote something from FuzzyBear ?
God help us !

You seem to have a habit of calling out people without contributing more than a handful of poorly formatted sentences. Why don't you define Trumpism with more than four paragraphs and give me your perception of something for once?