S1: Act to revise Bill 2's 'revision to the rules of the chamber of delegates'

[fhtagn]

AYE

[West_Midlander]

I vote 'aye.'

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Nay

[fhtagn]

With 2 votes in favor and 3 against, subamendment 2 fails.

Let's move on to subamendment 3:

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This clause shall be struck, and amended to the following. "Ballots cast shall follow the same rules for validity as under the Federal voting laws of atlasia."[/quote]

Discuss!

[West_Midlander]

I say we move to a final vote on this amendment.

[fhtagn]

I say we move to a final vote on this amendment.

There hasn't even been any discussion....?

[West_Midlander]

I may have jumped the gun a bit, though there's been none and it's been almost 24 hrs.

[West_Midlander]

Due to post requirements (in proximity to the election, in terms of time), I say we should maintain current Southern voting law.

[JustinTimeCuber]

Due to post requirements (in proximity to the election, in terms of time), I say we should maintain current Southern voting law.

This is about Speakership elections for the Chamber. In March we had an issue involving a vote not being counted (clearly for political reasons in my view.)

[West_Midlander]

Due to post requirements (in proximity to the election, in terms of time), I say we should maintain current Southern voting law.

This is about Speakership elections for the Chamber. In March we had an issue involving a vote not being counted (clearly for political reasons in my view.)

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[fhtagn]

Due to post requirements (in proximity to the election, in terms of time), I say we should maintain current Southern voting law.

This is about Speakership elections for the Chamber. In March we had an issue involving a vote not being counted (clearly for political reasons in my view.)

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Should be clarified here, the vote wasn't counted because of how long it had been after it was edited.

I made an edit to my vote 5 hours after I cast it. Something I admit was my mistake, but entirely justifiable for why that vote couldn't be counted. That move was also supported by another laborite (Peebs). So it wasn't entirely partisan.

[fhtagn]

If we're going that method, wouldn't fhtagn, who edited her ballot nearly five hours after it was cast, have her vote invalidated as well? And besides, where does it say that a ballot is invalidated after 10 minutes anyway? If anything, it would be 15 minutes as is the norm with both federal and Southern elections (read: the ones I run ), which would only invalidate fhtagn's vote.

The reasoning for this subamendment is to clarify how long after a ballot is cast is acceptable to edit. I fully agree (and accept responsibility for my error) that 5 hours past when I cast my ballot, even if it was to fix a typo, was unacceptable. While it may not have broken a specific rule. I do feel that adopting the rule that cuts off edits at 15 minutes is a good idea.

[West_Midlander]

If we're going that method, wouldn't fhtagn, who edited her ballot nearly five hours after it was cast, have her vote invalidated as well? And besides, where does it say that a ballot is invalidated after 10 minutes anyway? If anything, it would be 15 minutes as is the norm with both federal and Southern elections (read: the ones I run ), which would only invalidate fhtagn's vote.

The reasoning for this subamendment is to clarify how long after a ballot is cast is acceptable to edit. I fully agree (and accept responsibility for my error) that 5 hours past when I cast my ballot, even if it was to fix a typo, was unacceptable. While it may not have broken a specific rule. I do feel that adopting the rule that cuts off edits at 15 minutes is a good idea.

I concur. Certainly ballot-editing should be held to a minimum. 15 minutes is a good cut-off.
We should look over our ballots thoroughly before casting them.

[JustinTimeCuber]

I just don't see it as necessary. I'm a NAY vote unless someone can convince me that there's a good reason.

[NeverAgain]

I mean this is an election for Speaker, not for a Federal Election, they should obviously have different rules. The rules set a pretty clear standard and are specific to our Chamber. I see no reason to change them.

[fhtagn]

I just don't see it as necessary. I'm a NAY vote unless someone can convince me that there's a good reason.

But of course the person who was bitter about losing out on becoming Speaker over ballot edits has an issue with placing a time limit on them. At least be truthful about why you don't support the subamendment.

I mean this is an election for Speaker, not for a Federal Election, they should obviously have different rules. The rules set a pretty clear standard and are specific to our Chamber. I see no reason to change them.

This is regarding ballot edits, though. It's not something outrageous that makes things difficult for things to get done or is asking too much of those voting. In fact, this subamendment makes things more clear as it is an acceptable rule for all of Atlasia.

[West_Midlander]

I just don't see it as necessary. I'm a NAY vote unless someone can convince me that there's a good reason.

But of course the person who was bitter about losing out on becoming Speaker over ballot edits has an issue with placing a time limit on them. At least be truthful about why you don't support the subamendment.

I mean this is an election for Speaker, not for a Federal Election, they should obviously have different rules. The rules set a pretty clear standard and are specific to our Chamber. I see no reason to change them.

This is regarding ballot edits, though. It's not something outrageous that makes things difficult for things to get done or is asking too much of those voting. In fact, this subamendment makes things more clear as it is an acceptable rule for all of Atlasia.

I'd have to agree. Certainly things are simpler when we can follow a national example.
I don't have objections to the amendment because in general, the issue at hand is pretty benign and the amendment just provides for more clarity and simplicity regarding the voting rules of the Chamber by being able to refer to the national (all-encompassing) voting law, and making those same regulations and conditions applicable to in-Chamber votes.

[JustinTimeCuber]

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> Thinks I care about something that happened 3 months ago in a game

All the amendment does is adding unnecessary rules to have a valid vote. I ask again, why?

[fhtagn]

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> Thinks I care about something that happened 3 months ago in a game

All the amendment does is adding unnecessary rules to have a valid vote. I ask again, why?

So you think by making our voting guidelines the same as Federal is unnecessary?
How is limiting ballot edits to within 15 minutes unnecessary? Please explain.

You seem so against something that the rest of Atlasia has no issue with (including members of your own party).

[JustinTimeCuber]

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> Thinks I care about something that happened 3 months ago in a game

All the amendment does is adding unnecessary rules to have a valid vote. I ask again, why?

So you think by making our voting guidelines the same as Federal is unnecessary?
How is limiting ballot edits to within 15 minutes unnecessary? Please explain.

why is it my responsibility to convince that it's unnecessary? Isn't the burden of proof on the person claiming there should be a rule/restriction?

[fhtagn]

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> Thinks I care about something that happened 3 months ago in a game

All the amendment does is adding unnecessary rules to have a valid vote. I ask again, why?

So you think by making our voting guidelines the same as Federal is unnecessary?
How is limiting ballot edits to within 15 minutes unnecessary? Please explain.

why is it my responsibility to convince that it's unnecessary? Isn't the burden of proof on the person claiming there should be a rule/restriction?

I have given an explanation for why the amendment was proposed, as well as explained why it was a good idea to follow Federal election guidelines. West_Midlander also agreed with that statement and further explained why it is a good idea.

Now, I highly suggest actually taking the time to think of your reasoning why it is so bad to implement a 15 minute rule that EVERYONE ELSE in Atlasia follows, and coming back when you can be an adult and use your words.

Stomping your feet and crying "well I don't like it" has never gotten anyone very far.

[JustinTimeCuber]

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> Thinks I care about something that happened 3 months ago in a game

All the amendment does is adding unnecessary rules to have a valid vote. I ask again, why?

So you think by making our voting guidelines the same as Federal is unnecessary?
How is limiting ballot edits to within 15 minutes unnecessary? Please explain.

why is it my responsibility to convince that it's unnecessary? Isn't the burden of proof on the person claiming there should be a rule/restriction?

I have given an explanation for why the amendment was proposed, as well as explained why it was a good idea to follow Federal election guidelines. West_Midlander also agreed with that statement and further explained why it is a good idea.

Now, I highly suggest actually taking the time to think of your reasoning why it is so bad to implement a 15 minute rule that EVERYONE ELSE in Atlasia follows, and coming back when you can be an adult and use your words.

Stomping your feet and crying "well I don't like it" has never gotten anyone very far.

Everyone else meaning much bigger, public elections though. I'm not even saying it's SO BAD (or sick), I just want a concrete reason that it's necessary.

E: no idea what a pubic election is

[fhtagn]

As there has been no other discussion, I will now bring this to a 48 hour vote on subamendment 3.

for clarification, an "AYE" vote will strike the clause and allow us to adopt the federal voting guidelines. A "NAY" vote would keep the clause, as written:

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[JustinTimeCuber]

Abstain

[fhtagn]

Aye