Belgian Politics & Elections: Federal, regional & EP elections on June 9, 2024

[Velasco]

Hell I'll even accept going back to the Netherlands. What a terrible strategic mistake our split was anyway.

Going back to the Netherlands would be problematic for the French speaking part of Belgium. On the other hand, Belgium has a reputation of being a country that gets along pretty well without a government. It's complicated...

[CumbrianLefty]

Lots of countries could (and in some cases do) manage for a surprisingly long time without an effective government. However, not having one is a definite drawback in any sort of crisis situation.

[Zinneke]

Hell I'll even accept going back to the Netherlands. What a terrible strategic mistake our split was anyway.

Going back to the Netherlands would be problematic for the French speaking part of Belgium. On the other hand, Belgium has a reputation of being a country that gets along pretty well without a government. It's complicated...

I'm only joking, but if a confederal model emerges, Belgium's remaining "federal" competences could easily be shared with the NL. That is if they don't completely lose their marbles with their nativist knee jerk. All three regions of Belgium would have autonomy on socio-economic affairs, which is I think the key divergence between the two countries.

Lots of countries could (and in some cases do) manage for a surprisingly long time without an effective government. However, not having one is a definite drawback in any sort of crisis situation.

The issue not so much the federal government not having a working majority but also the total lack of co-ordination between different state actors, and a lot of "pass-the-parcel" reactions to Covid meaning that when there is an issue in Antwerp with a soaring of cases, the Federal government tells De Wever to do something, he comes out with a different line to play Federal politics when is Mayor of Antwerp, does nothing and so then Provincial (a level of government that our inept political class promised they would scrap) level decides they want to build their careers by announcing headline-grabbing measures (major curfew that doesn't work). This institutional lasagne is a total joke in a crisis situation, and a strong federal government would only fix one end of it. It all needs to be completely rethought, but it involves politicians taking up less mandates, which is difficult.

[parochial boy]

Is anyone seriously pushing for refederalisation then? I've come across various sources or figures claiming that it is a good idea (although what I read is probably very biased towards the francophones). And it does seem like the existing model is in no small part responsible for the shïtshow - and on that logic, confederalism sounds like a pretty guaranteed way to just make things worse.

[Zinneke]

Is anyone seriously pushing for refederalisation then? I've come across various sources or figures claiming that it is a good idea (although what I read is probably very biased towards the francophones). And it does seem like the existing model is in no small part responsible for the shïtshow - and on that logic, confederalism sounds like a pretty guaranteed way to just make things worse.

The new green-liberal axis has asked for refederalisation in certain competences yes. The issue is that there is no majority or even plurality for any solution. There are as many Flemish voters who want a return to a unitary state (scrapping the alarm bell for the francophones) as there are who want unilateral secession.

Confederalism is as such the compromise solution. This country's death warrant was signed long ago though, it's just a slow arduous process towards dissolution. As an article today said though, the issue is that the Belgian political class cannot decide how the burial should look like. They are far too concerned with who gets what ministry and build their contact book in the process. Uniquely corrupt and they will deserve the VB-PTB snookering of their entire class if and when we have fresh elections.

 We might as well try confederalism.

[Estrella]

Calls for new inquiry into Belgian police custody death

The wife of a Slovak man who died in Belgian police custody has called for a fresh inquiry after shocking images of his detention emerged.
Jozef Chovanec was arrested at Charleroi airport in 2018 after causing a disturbance on his flight.
While in custody, he began banging his head on the wall of his cell to the point of bleeding. A group of officers are later seen pinning him down.
Chovanec was taken to hospital, but fell into a coma and died the next day.
The images from the cell show several officers laughing during the incident, while another appears to give a Nazi salute. Another is filmed sitting on Chovanec's rib cage for 16 minutes.
His death has drawn parallels in Belgium with the case of George Floyd, who died in May after a police officer knelt on his neck during his arrest in the US.

I wonder if this is getting any coverage in Belgium, but I also have a related question: these types of people clearly vote VB in Flanders, but Wallonia has no relevant far-right parties and I don't think that les flics down there are less fash than anywhere else. Who would that Hitler-saluting cop vote for?

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Calls for new inquiry into Belgian police custody death

The wife of a Slovak man who died in Belgian police custody has called for a fresh inquiry after shocking images of his detention emerged.
Jozef Chovanec was arrested at Charleroi airport in 2018 after causing a disturbance on his flight.
While in custody, he began banging his head on the wall of his cell to the point of bleeding. A group of officers are later seen pinning him down.
Chovanec was taken to hospital, but fell into a coma and died the next day.
The images from the cell show several officers laughing during the incident, while another appears to give a Nazi salute. Another is filmed sitting on Chovanec's rib cage for 16 minutes.
His death has drawn parallels in Belgium with the case of George Floyd, who died in May after a police officer knelt on his neck during his arrest in the US.

I wonder if this is getting any coverage in Belgium, but I also have a related question: these types of people clearly vote VB in Flanders, but Wallonia has no relevant far-right parties and I don't think that les flics down there are less fash than anywhere else. Who would that Hitler-saluting cop vote for?

The far-left is capitalizing on it, i've seen. And i've seen it in the media and on social media a lot.

[Zinneke]

Some scuffles on a beach created more headlines. It's not nearly getting enough attention.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Potentially a government will be formed by Green-Ecolo, PS-s.pa, Open VLD-MR and potentially cdH-CD&V (perhaps without CD&V) and Défi.

[GlobeSoc]

That just sounds like a grand coalition of all the non-secessionists and non-communists. Seems sure to be unwieldy but its belgium so idk

[PSOL]

Exactly what are the relations between the two green parties and PVDA-PTB? Do they get along in local office together? How are they represented in attack ads against one another?

[Zinneke]

NVA First Minister Jan Jambon is now under pressure to resign after it emerged that he was informed of the death of the Slovak national at Charleroi airport under police custody as Interior Minister and apparently covered it up. This would be a major scalp but De Wever and Francken are pulling out the stops to keep him in place.

That just sounds like a grand coalition of all the non-secessionists and non-communists. Seems sure to be unwieldy but its belgium so idk

There is precedence with Di Rupo I who had the Greens on board for the state reform but nothing else.

 its a terrible strategic move. This is exactly what the extremist want. It would be a far better idea to have a right-wing coalition with one left party so that NVA carries some of the can. Keep in mind Lachaert was selected by VLD members as a right-wing, pro-flemish figure so I imagine they will now consider their options.

Exactly what are the relations between the two green parties and PVDA-PTB? Do they get along in local office together? How are they represented in attack ads against one another?

They mostly ignore each other. Student politics between their youth wings can get a bit fiery and PTB-PVDA have the ironic "Red is the new Green" slogan and talk about how they are much more eco-friendly since they want to end capitalism (but re-open the coal mines...hmm...).

ECOLO seem ready to govern with PTB. I'm not sure how an alliance with PTB would be received with Groen though given it has stronger realo wings of the party that would rebel more loudly. Both Green parties would lose voters in such a scenario but then they don't seem to care.

[PSOL]

Can you tell us more about the workings of student politics? In a country that hasn’t had students play a visible role, I’m interested in how it is in Belgium.

[GlobeSoc]

a PTB-Ecolo government sounds like it would be extremely left-wing, no? Ecolo would be mainly pushing for ecological issues which would lead to PTB being able to set most of the rest of the agenda?

[Zinneke]

Can you tell us more about the workings of student politics? In a country that hasn’t had students play a visible role, I’m interested in how it is in Belgium.

As a disclaimer : I didn't study in Belgium, but in the NL, where student politics within the University Councils themselves (until recently when the cross-Atlantic culture wars took over) was actually fairly depoliticised - students have a huge amount of power in the NL relative to other countries on things like education policy, and there is this idea that you are not to be some extravagant blow hard at council level and in exchange you get to work in the faculty/university at developing projects and policies in a very Dutch, bureaucratic manner. The actual youth wings of the Dutch political parties are present usually with their stands at big uni events and then you go to their local meetings, get drunk, etc. The party political infrastructure itself wasnt so present within the University Council political structures when I studied, although again, in recent years this has started to change (I gather).

In Belgium its quite the opposite, because of its more Latin/Southern culture, and a heavy politicisation of the "Cercles" (the equivalent of fraternities - but that are tied intrinsically to both political and university life), student politics is much more confrontational. In Flanders the student council elections often see grandstanding candidates from the Comac (PTB youth wing) and the KHSV or NSV who are reactionary catholic/Flamingant, with the people running in between tending to be apolitical, bravely running their campaign on actual university issues. Dries Vanlangenhove of VB for example made his name partly through running on the Gent student council elections and was eventually kicked out, and he also was active in Leuven.


 In the WalloBrux universities you have the all powerful FEF, the Francophone student union. It essentially is a platform for all forms of student politics as its the only union and also the gateway to the university council, and the political parties somewhat exploit that. The FEF is indeed essentially a breeding ground for future ECOLO and Comac types. There is still a strong Liberal presence at certain unis (UCL, like its Flemish counterpart, tends to be more conservative compared to Liège and ULB - even though the latter is officially the Liberal pillar University), but the FEF demonstrates far more virulently against the Established Order of universities.

Last but not least, the annual NSV (extreme right frat) march in a Flemish city used to be something both fascists and antifa would gather for and turn whichever city was lucky enough into a Green Zone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=137&v=YsJizX8ppo0&feature=emb_logo) but that has somewhat dissipated. Its now a lot of very online abuse, and annoying "stunts", attacking cafés, sh**t like that.

a PTB-Ecolo government sounds like it would be extremely left-wing, no? Ecolo would be mainly pushing for ecological issues which would lead to PTB being able to set most of the rest of the agenda?

The key cleavage between the two is that ECOLO are (for the most part) into degrowth policies whereas PTB are still inherently productivist.

I don't think ECOLO would ever enter a government with PTB on their own. They would want red-red-green with PS, and PTB maybe outside of major government functions.  

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I'm a member of comac. Our candidates got elected in the social council of ughent.

[Zinneke]

I'm a member of comac. Our candidates got elected in the social council of ughent.

Again I take the Dutch view : what is the point of political parties hijacking student politics?

[CumbrianLefty]

Well if the UK is any example, it is to produce future politicians?

[PSOL]

I'm a member of comac. Our candidates got elected in the social council of ughent.

Again I take the Dutch view : what is the point of political parties hijacking student politics?

Wouldn’t having a student union/league as apart of party apparatus make the party interested in dealing with student interests at a national level?

[Zinneke]

Well if the UK is any example, it is to produce future politicians?

Sure but a good politician (one would hope, especially in Belgium) knows which issues count at what level. Getting elected to the Faculty Council because you want to end capitalism or do wierd neo-fascist stunts isn't a good training. In fact as Dries proves it's turning every aspect of the country into a polarised mess.

I'm a member of comac. Our candidates got elected in the social council of ughent.

Again I take the Dutch view : what is the point of political parties hijacking student politics?

Wouldn’t having a student union/league as apart of party apparatus make the party interested in dealing with student interests at a national level?

You are right but at the same time I think it's more the other way round : parties like ECOLO and PTB are desperate for attention from students and thus get involved. Again I don't know the inner workings. But I liked the Dutch strict separation between the reps at University council level and then the "National Student Union (which some dutch political parties do court) that talks about genuine student interests at a national political level, and occasionally comes into contact with the student parties for networking and policies. In Belgium it's all a bit...incestuous?  The issue I am raising is the political parties and their youth wings infiltrating university councils and rector elections.

I don't think courting the student vote anyway is as much an issue as the generational wealth gap that is incoming, and even that isn't talked about as much here in Belgium because the family unit is seen as sacred so living with your parents till late 20s isn't seen as abnormal.

[Zinneke]

The Slovak parliament has called on the European Commission (wtf) to take over the case of the Slovak national murdered at Charleroi airport by police while one was doing nazi salutes. They believe that the Belgian authorities are engaging in a cover up, which all the evidence suggests is the case : why did the prosecuting judge decide that it should be kept silent for two years? why did the Comité P, the police watchdog, not do its job? Why does our bureaucratic system allow these "people" to get away with literal murder? And more importantly, why are they all (including the perpetrators) still to this hour in jobs?

I'm not sure on what legal basis the EC can get involved in such an investigation ,but its yet another humiliation for the governance system and institutions of this country.

Other developments : CD&V have agreed this evening to talk to the Vivaldi block (Greens, Socialists, Liberals). MR insist that cdH are not invited into government. CD&V are thus the last remaining jigsaw piece to a government with a full majority within it, and they want the PM gig and several institutional measures like a single Brussels police zone.

And on the subject of student politics I forgot to mention, there is also the ongoing case of the murder/manslaughter of a student Sandy Dia in a fraternity hazing. He was apparently getting a lot of abuse prior to the hazing incident. A lot of people initially getting away with this because mummy and daddy are well connected (and many are also, you guessed it, part of the young NVA/VB nexus - with one interning at the European Parliament for the NVA). Its also causing a big scandal in Flanders.

These are all "faits divers" of course, but its the handling of these issue that shows how broken our justice system, and society, is.

[Zinneke]

Lachaert and Rousseau appointed preformateurs, which means we are in the final straight.

cdH got cucked out of the negotiating table by its francophone partners. Which is funny and sad at the same time. cdH are so power hungry that seeing them forced out is great, but the reasons are nakedly cynical : MR and ECOLO wants to marginalise them and PS wants more ministries. They will also have very little political room to criticise this coalition. The main opposition will be VB, PTB and NVA.

For the race to the job that is so coveted (mainly because it is an escape route from the mudpit of Belgian politics, as Leterme, Van Rompuy, the Liberal Rodent and Michel have shown) Bouchez still wants Wilmes as PM, even though we have had 3 Francophone PMs now in a row and Wilmes hasn't actually been that good other than being a "known face" now for a bunch of low info voters. What a twat.

[GlobeSoc]

lol it would be epic if PTB broke 20% nationally because of literally all the other left parties being in such an unwieldy coalition. Significantly less epic if NVA and VB pulled a landslide in Flanders tho

Vivaldi is a one way ticket to radicalization lol

[Zinneke]

Bouchez being Bouchez, has decided to do loads of interviews throwing as many spanners into the works as possible, resulting in the non-liberal parties deciding enough was enough and have now asked Wilmes to babysit him. Rousseau , the sp.a leader, has since said that for him the Vivaldi cant work with MR, so Lachaert has now decided he wants to resign as preformateur. Which will mean fresh elections most likely.

What an utter circus.

[PSOL]

At some point, it just makes sense giving the Communists some irrelevant posts in the cabinet in a grand coalition and work to sidelining them enough for them to abruptly leave. Sorta like what happened in France with PS and the Communist Party during Mitterand. They’d hope for them to alienate people in government and in the public and, doing so, increase support for the traditional lefty parties.

I mean it’s that or accepting VB taking over Flanders and fundamentally breaking any chance for the country.