State of Michigan ending discounts on water for Flint residents

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

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http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2017/02/09/flint-water-credits-michigan/97710076/

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I don't see how a public institution can charge the public for whatever after poisoning the aforementioned public?

[ApatheticAustrian]

I don't see how a public institution can charge the public for whatever after poisoning the aforementioned public?

this may sound cynical but isn't that what "republicanism-on-steroids" is all about in practice today?

responsibility to the max for the "common man", socialism for the upper class.

[Antonio the Sixth]

These people have no shame.

[pbrower2a]

The water had better be good again, or Michigan is going to be a bad state for Republicans in 2028 and 2020.

[Maxwell]

pull yourself up by your bootstraps, libs.

[Rjjr77]

I don't see how a public institution can charge the public for whatever after poisoning the aforementioned public?

The state didn't poison the public.

What's lost in the whole flint fiasco is how it actually happened. This wasn't a failure of infrastructure or a lack of funds, this was a huge screw up by the people who were supposed to be the water engineers.

[ApatheticAustrian]

I don't see how a public institution can charge the public for whatever after poisoning the aforementioned public?

The state didn't poison the public.

What's lost in the whole flint fiasco is how it actually happened. This wasn't a failure of infrastructure or a lack of funds, this was a huge screw up by the people who were supposed to be the water engineers.

ofc that's the FINAL answer but this only happened cause there was such a NEED for cheap water in the first place.

[Rjjr77]

I don't see how a public institution can charge the public for whatever after poisoning the aforementioned public?

The state didn't poison the public.

What's lost in the whole flint fiasco is how it actually happened. This wasn't a failure of infrastructure or a lack of funds, this was a huge screw up by the people who were supposed to be the water engineers.

ofc that's the FINAL answer but this only happened cause there was such a NEED for cheap water in the first place.

It wasn't a need for cheap water (another misconception) flint was to join a new water partnership, their current contract was expiring before the new partnership was ready, they chose to utilize their water plant themselves rather then enter into a contract they would break.

The fact that the people at the flint water department didn't realize treatment differences between water types is why people got non-potable water. Period.

[Virginiá]

It wasn't a need for cheap water (another misconception) flint was to join a new water partnership, their current contract was expiring before the new partnership was ready, they chose to utilize their water plant themselves rather then enter into a contract they would break.

The fact that the people at the flint water department didn't realize treatment differences between water types is why people got non-potable water. Period.

What about the issue of Snyder/other officials knowing what was going on long before it was ever announced to the public? How long were they going to let it go on for?

This isn't just some lowly engineers' fault.

[Rjjr77]

It wasn't a need for cheap water (another misconception) flint was to join a new water partnership, their current contract was expiring before the new partnership was ready, they chose to utilize their water plant themselves rather then enter into a contract they would break.

The fact that the people at the flint water department didn't realize treatment differences between water types is why people got non-potable water. Period.

What about the issue of Snyder/other officials knowing what was going on long before it was ever announced to the public? How long were they going to let it go on for?

This isn't just some lowly engineers' fault.

What Snyder did or didn't know is important from a political standpoint (I doubt Snyder has any real knowledge, water quality in a city is not something the governor himself would probably get regular briefings on), but it really has little to do with what caused the issue.

But this whole thing is entirely "lowly engineers fault" not just one but the whole team of flint.

It's easy to blame the government for this horrible mistake, it's what people do, but the fact that people were working in a water department who clearly didn't know the bare bones basics of water treatment and saw no issue with how they handled things. The government is going to defer to water engineers, every time in every city in every state.

[Virginiá]

It's easy to blame the government for this horrible mistake, it's what people do, but the fact that people were working in a water department who clearly didn't know the bare bones basics of water treatment and saw no issue with how they handled things. The government is going to defer to water engineers, every time in every city in every state.

It is easy, because there are emails suggesting state officials knew about this issue back in late 2014 and yet it took, what, over a year for there to be action? And as I recall, even after people were told, they were still being charged for this poison for some time. You can't seriously act like the state owes its citizens nothing in this regard, keeping in mind the amount of time they were charging residents for poison water.

You're talking about the source of the problem here, fine, but it doesn't matter for this. Government officials made these decisions. It is completely their responsibility, even if they made the decisions in good faith that proper treatments would be used.

[Rjjr77]

It's easy to blame the government for this horrible mistake, it's what people do, but the fact that people were working in a water department who clearly didn't know the bare bones basics of water treatment and saw no issue with how they handled things. The government is going to defer to water engineers, every time in every city in every state.

It is easy, because there are emails suggesting state officials knew about this issue back in late 2014 and yet it took, what, over a year for there to be action? And as I recall, even after people were told, they were still being charged for this poison for some time. You can't seriously act like the state owes its citizens nothing in this regard, keeping in mind the amount of time they were charging residents for poison water.

You're talking about the source of the problem here, fine, but it doesn't matter for this. Government officials made these decisions. It is completely their responsibility, even if they made the decisions in good faith that proper treatments would be used.

As is often the case with water issues it's probably the case that these issues were disputed, water quality is not check as often as it should be, and heavy metal levels are common to fluctuate. We don't know what was known as certain and when. If members of the government knew it was contaminated to dangerous levels and didn't do anything at all that is a problem, right now that isn't a guarantee.

The city of flint was charging them for water, not the state.

The decisions government officials made were not bad ones, switching water treatment was not a bad idea, utilizing lead pipes was not a bad idea. The problem was people who were supposed to execute these reasonable plans screwed up. Every single one of those water department employees working with the treatment plant should be put on trial, either due to negligence or idiocy of supposed professionals thousands of people were poisoned.

[Virginiá]

The city of flint was charging them for water, not the state.

The decisions government officials made were not bad ones, switching water treatment was not a bad idea, utilizing lead pipes was not a bad idea. The problem was people who were supposed to execute these reasonable plans screwed up. Every single one of those water department employees working with the treatment plant should be put on trial, either due to negligence or idiocy of supposed professionals thousands of people were poisoned.

Cities are in essence entities of the state, and in a disaster like this the state should step in if the city can't or won't. After all, residents of Flint are residents of Michigan. In fact, in this particular case, it was the state legislature who rammed through an emergency manager bill even after voters vetoed it, this time making it immune to a veto referendum. State-appointed official(s) with control over Flint then proceeded to make decisions that, for whatever reasons, resulted in poisoned water being delivered to residents of Flint for well over a year. Given the state's actions to exert control over this locality, they owe it to Flint to make things right even beyond what would (or at least should) be legally required.