Second Jewish cemetery vandalized, this time in Philadelphia

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also I find the implication that Lena Dunham would be better off in Israel to be utterly hysterical.

[Stranger in a strange land]

If there was an actual anti-Semite as President of the United States, Israel would cease to exist.

Not necessarily. Given the typical thought process on the American Right, he would more likely try to coerce American Jews to move there in an effort to (1) shore up Israel's demographics against the Brown Muslim Horde if he's an Alt-Righter and/or (2) Bring about the fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy by gathering as many Jews as possible in the Holy Land if he's a Religious Right Christian Zionist. I think you'll find Richard Spencer's comments on Israel instructive: while he's obviously anti-Semitic, he isn't critical of Israel because he sees it as an "ethno-state" in the mold of the societies he wants to create throughout the West. In his view, because Israelis have a nation-state, they aren't the International Jews that he views as his enemies. While Spencer remains a fringe figure, his views are instructive in terms of how the Far Right views Israel, especially since I suspect he's voicing sentiments that many, including some in the Trump administration, think but don't dare say out loud.

[dead0man]

Where do most American Jews have more friends, the US or Israel?

Most have as many personal ties to Israel as I do.

I have no idea on either of these, but they also have nothing to do with what I said.  "A Jew" is an individual and many of them DO have direct familial ties to Israel.  Even ones that are on "your side" and would likely never move still have an emotional attachment to the place, Jon Stewart for one.

And anybody that wanted to move would have already or they have perfectly good reasons to want to stay.  I'm sure most of those are exactly because they have larger familial commitments in the US than they do in Israel.  That doesn't mean David won't feel more "at home" when he finally gets that 972 country code as his cell number.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

OK here's my main point:

Why would a Jew feel safer living somewhere where rockets are fired at them than in a place where some acts of vandalism happen?

For that matter I would never serve in the military and wouldn't want any hypothetical children of mine to do so against their will, so if I were Jewish I'd sure be staying put in the US over Israel.

Not surprising. I guarantee that no Jews I know have any interest in moving to Israel and in fact most probably don't even have any interest in even visiting Israel.

And Israel's ongoing existence and strength is the reason Jewish people who think the same way as you can have the luxury of security in the country they choose to live in.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Or we could discuss the issue of e.g. the vandalisation of Jewish cemeteries and why this is a Bad Thing both in itself and as a canary-in-the-coalmine.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Or we could discuss the issue of e.g. the vandalisation of Jewish cemeteries and why this is a Bad Thing both in itself and as a canary-in-the-coalmine.

Of course. I don't think anyone disagrees. It's just that some think that the solution is for every single Jewish person to leave.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Where do most American Jews have more friends, the US or Israel?

Most have as many personal ties to Israel as I do.

I have no idea on either of these, but they also have nothing to do with what I said.  "A Jew" is an individual and many of them DO have direct familial ties to Israel.  Even ones that are on "your side" and would likely never move still have an emotional attachment to the place, Jon Stewart for one.

And anybody that wanted to move would have already or they have perfectly good reasons to want to stay.  I'm sure most of those are exactly because they have larger familial commitments in the US than they do in Israel.  That doesn't mean David won't feel more "at home" when he finally gets that 972 country code as his cell number.

You're right, "a Jew" is an individual. So see why there's a problem with proposing that every single one move to Israel?

Even ignoring familial commitments and the terrorism issues I can think of quite a few reasons why Jews would prefer to not move to Israel:

-Many like the advantages of living in a superpower country, this offers many more economic opportunities, plus the US's status and location gives some advantages, you can easily get from the US to most of the world, not so much the case with Israel simply due to geography. And the economic opportunities are a bit more limited, imagine if someone got a job for somewhere like Google or Apple, upon looking it up there is a Google office in Israel but it's no doubt more small and minor than the opportunities here. There are by the way no Apple stores in Israel and yes, that is for some people a really big deal. I don't think anyone can dispute that there are plenty of Jews that care far more about Apple products than their Jewish identity seeing as how people who like Apple products tend to be about them in general.
-Israel is a small country, only about the size of New Jersey, and even if its neighbors weren't mostly hostile its borders with them is mostly just expanses of desert, meaning there's not much to travel except around Israel. Geographically it's pretty isolated. Meaning if you want to actually take a trip a bit away, you have no choice but to fly somewhere.
-Many people would prefer not having to learn a second language, and I'd wager most Jews today have little if any knowledge of Hebrew.
-The US and now most of Europe has no mandatory military service, so anyone of draft age has a valid reason to not want to live there, and even people older than that have a valid concern if they don't want their children to have mandatory military service, which today would be almost everyone in the US.
-Imagine someone who loves skiing or snowboarding. They might prefer not having to fly to Turkey every time to go on a weekend getaway doing so.
-Israel's religious leaders are to put it mildly, a tad more conservative than just about all American Jews are. It's like if someone from a very moderate mainline Protestant religious background went somewhere that was dominated by hardline fundamentalists.
-In relation to that about half of American Jews who are married are in marriages that are not considered valid in Israel, and gays can't get married at all. Pre-2015 I'm sure you and many here would be sympathetic to any gays that moved to a different state so they could be married, I'd say the same applies here.
-Israel is pretty lacking in places that are both "fun" and have a reasonable cost of living, and no, that is not true for the US at least, not every major US city is New York or San Francisco. According to this article I make well over the average salary in Israel and I'm not rich by any means, based on a little research Tel Aviv apartments seem to be more expensive than Minneapolis ones too. And of course the article touches on a problem in Israel also seen in places like Hawaii and Australia, the geographic isolation increases import costs and the costs of consumer goods in general, I'd also wager that insurance for most things costs quite a bit more in Israel. Unless I was guaranteed to land a very good job it's definitely not a place I'd want to ever consider living no matter what my ethnoreligious background was.

Hell I'd be willing to wager that based on all this if you did a poll of American Jews asking if they would rather immigrate to Canada or Israel, the vast majority would choose Canada.

[dead0man]

You're right, "a Jew" is an individual. So see why there's a problem with proposing that every single one move to Israel?

I'm not arguing (and neither is David as he's repeatedly said) that every Jewish person should move to Israel.

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I think it would be tight....I'd assume leaning towards Israel.  I don't know if I'd wager on it though.  Again, most Jewish Americans that want to move there already have sometime in the last 60 years.

[EnglishPete]

Breaking news about the bomb threats. FBI have made an arrest

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Its this guy



But he has an excuse

[Horus]

As I suspected, this was done to make somebody (In this case an ex girlfriend) look bad. The guy appears to be a communist, his twitter page stated "Show me a capitalist and I'll show you a bloodsucker."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ADL-Says-Arrest-Made-in-Bomb-Threats-415319653.html

[EnglishPete]

After this arrest I hope everyone who suggested this was a hoax done by some deranged attention seeking lunatic wanting to make Trump look bad is thoroughly ashamed of themselves. It now looks like it was a hoax done by some deranged lunatic wanting to get his ex girlfriend arrested on fake charges. You might suggest that making Trump supporters look bad was a bonus for him, but just look at him. Clearly a stereotypical KKK hillbilly redneck Trump supporter.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

[EnglishPete]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

Yes, all the people caught so far for this wave of post election reported hate crime have turned out to be hoaxers. That must mean that the next one will be real for sure.

[ApatheticAustrian]

it wasn't a "hoax" it was just not a causal hate crime.

[Gass3268]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

No it doesn't, police have reported this guy is just a copy cat responsible for only about 10% of the calls.

[EnglishPete]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

No it doesn't, police have reported this guy is just a copy cat responsible for only about 10% of the calls.

The only guy caught for any of these crimes so far is a hoaxer. Is it still anti-semitic to think that more hoaxers might behind the rest of them?

[ApatheticAustrian]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

No it doesn't, police have reported this guy is just a copy cat responsible for only about 10% of the calls.

The only guy caught for any of these crimes so far is a hoaxer. Is it still anti-semitic to think that more hoaxers might behind the rest of them?

it's not anti-semitic at all, but wishful thinking.

[EnglishPete]

Well that takes care of the bomb threats but the cemetery's are a different story

No it doesn't, police have reported this guy is just a copy cat responsible for only about 10% of the calls.

The only guy caught for any of these crimes so far is a hoaxer. Is it still anti-semitic to think that more hoaxers might behind the rest of them?

it's not anti-semitic at all, but wishful thinking.

LOL. "The next guy caught will be a real Trump supporting KKK racist for sure. Just ignore the fact that every single time someone gets caught for one of these 'Trump hate crimes' it turns out to be a hoaxer. I'm telling you that the next one caught is unlikely to be a hoaxer. Because reasons"

[ApatheticAustrian]

LOL. "The next guy caught will be a real Trump supporting KKK racist for sure. Just ignore the fact that every single time someone gets caught for one of these 'Trump hate crimes' it turns out to be a hoaxer. I'm telling you that the next one caught is unlikely to be a hoaxer. Because reasons"

there are idiots and there are trump supporters and there are culturalists/racist assholes and those who are really doing pretty bad stuff.

sometimes those dots are connected, often not.... i wouldn't blame trump in any way, that some people are taking his whistle-blowing not only literally but think their own sick worldview is somehow  redeemed now.

at the same time, ofc there are going to be right-wing hate crimes....there is no advantage at all at denying their existence.

[EnglishPete]

LOL. "The next guy caught will be a real Trump supporting KKK racist for sure. Just ignore the fact that every single time someone gets caught for one of these 'Trump hate crimes' it turns out to be a hoaxer. I'm telling you that the next one caught is unlikely to be a hoaxer. Because reasons"

there are idiots and there are trump supporters and there are culturalists/racist assholes and those who are really doing pretty bad stuff.

Really? There's been a reported wave of hate crime since the election. If so many of these crimes are genuine it should be no problem for you to find some examples that were proven to be genuinely by Trump supporters to match all the ones that were proven to be hoaxes.

[EnglishPete]

As I suspected, this was done to make somebody (In this case an ex girlfriend) look bad. The guy appears to be a communist, his twitter page stated "Show me a capitalist and I'll show you a bloodsucker."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ADL-Says-Arrest-Made-in-Bomb-Threats-415319653.html

I notice that liberal media outlets haven't asked Bernie Sanders to disavow his supporter here. I'm sure they'll get round to it at any moment.

[ApatheticAustrian]

there are idiots and there are trump supporters and there are culturalists/racist assholes and those who are really doing pretty bad stuff.

Really? There's been a reported wave of hate crime since the election. If so many of these crimes are genuine it should be no problem for you to find some examples that were proven to be genuinely by Trump supporters to match all the ones that were proven to be hoaxes.
[/quote]

could post a few but this doesn't seem like a useful task.

what would i prove by doing so?

nothing at all, in fact.

[ApatheticAustrian]

As I suspected, this was done to make somebody (In this case an ex girlfriend) look bad. The guy appears to be a communist, his twitter page stated "Show me a capitalist and I'll show you a bloodsucker."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ADL-Says-Arrest-Made-in-Bomb-Threats-415319653.html

I notice that liberal media outlets haven't asked Bernie Sanders to disavow his supporter here. I'm sure they'll get round to it at any moment.

r u kidding me?

there have been a lot of - according to conservatives - liberal media outlets who have been critical of bernie and asked him for disavowing sexist etc. whatever supporters.

[krazen1211]

The FBI found a guy named Juan Thompson and arrested him for issuing these bomb threats. Turns out that it was your standard violent leftist.

Link

A radical leftist journalist who was fired from the investigative site the Intercept for falsifying details in his stories has been charged with making several bomb threats against Jewish community centers in what authorities allege was a plot to frame an ex-girlfriend.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Lol it was a JOURNALIST too. Watch this thread drop to page three of this sub forum by midnight.