Turkey referendum, 2017

[ApatheticAustrian]

since the government went overboard with threatening about the dire consequences for rejection (WAR WAR WAR CIVIL WAR WAR WAR), i can't imagine that the new constitution is going to be rejected. would not only be an amazing humiliation for the government, it would factually knee-cap the major goal of this administration.

guess best case would be another referendum each year.

[ApatheticAustrian]

not very surprising and just what i have said since years...this is the new far-right conspiracy against liberalism and the left is often not helping at all.

the center must hold or we are all doomed.

[ApatheticAustrian]

^^

Actually, it translates as "One Flag, one fatherland, one nation (or people), one state".

thanks

was just asking a friend of mine, if that could be true. xD

[ApatheticAustrian]

to be totally fair:

erdogan, or at least the AKP, was for years the most pro-kurds politican actor/legal party in the country and much better than the anti-kurd nationalist/social-democrats.

the this has obviously reversed itself but those kurds voting for AKP are not just stupid.

[ApatheticAustrian]

since the government promised civil war and destruction if NO should win, he also can't imagine a loss of the regime.

[ApatheticAustrian]

they don't suffer from supression and only feel economical success - and often are less educated than the average turk.

[ApatheticAustrian]

thx foreign turks for saving autocracy.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Nationalism wins again? Though this is the wrong type of nationalism.

this is not nationalism, more like monarchy/autocracy.

and the margin is so close, it could have been fixed with little things.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Good to see that our Turks are the 2nd most fanatical in Europe ...

true, even while we are ofc only talking about those allowed to vote but that we got some of the most fanatical was visible during the coup....big demonstrations out of nothing, in the middle of the night in vienna.

[ApatheticAustrian]

The Turkish executive branch should be more powerful, but...this constitution goes too far in that direction. Nonetheless the country is quite probably better off that Yes is winning.

the country is practically eliminating the separation of powers and any kind of accountability for the government.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes and YES !

https://twitter.com/DahiBilal/status/853576743101321218

is that joking or real?

[ApatheticAustrian]

The Turkish executive branch should be more powerful, but...this constitution goes too far in that direction. Nonetheless the country is quite probably better off that Yes is winning.

the country is practically eliminating the separation of powers and any kind of accountability for the government.

Well the current constitution is parliamentary supremacy, which I don't see as ideal either.

there is no practical supremacy and the congress is in the US is kind of almighty too in theory.

erdogan is anyway ruling alone and crushing whoever feels like resisting.

[ApatheticAustrian]

what will eu do now

we need to do nothing, if the death penalty comes back, this problem solves itself.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Breaking: According to the Standard, the national turkish election agency said that only 70% of ballots have been counted.

wtf?

[ApatheticAustrian]

zeit.de has a great explainer.

the numbers until now are more or less educated guesses, there are still many un-opened ballots in the cities.

[ApatheticAustrian]

the truth is, as usual, in the mid.

those turks who are austrians, germans etc aren't allowed anymore to vote anyway.

[ApatheticAustrian]

To be honest, all this ordeal proves to me is that Western Europe is, culturally and socially, just a much worse fit than countries like the US or Canada for the assimilation of immigrants.

look at the raw numbers of immigrants and the size of the countries. and ofc the distance between turkey and the destinations of choice.

[ApatheticAustrian]

and ofc.....turks in germany were meant to GO HOME again after working for some time and until a few years ago, germany and austria didn't think of themselves as "immigration countries" and ignored melting-pot-approached or basic integration.

[ApatheticAustrian]

why would so many kurdish voters/liberal voters suddenly support erdogan?

[ApatheticAustrian]

why would so many kurdish voters/liberal voters suddenly support erdogan?

Kurdish voters have always had a strong Erdoganist component. After all he represents the more religious nationalist end that includes them, as opposed to the more exclusively ethnic Turkish nationalists.

you are totally correct.

just.....since the rise of the new kurdish party, erdogan has stepped up his anti-kurds rhetoric and program and somehow also fought his little civil war against the ethnical minority itself.

possible that some more conservative kurds are now afraid of the PKK/HDP but the timing seemed strange to me.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Multiculturalism vs. Integration.

neither

integration wasn't the goal cause those people were meant to GO BACK and pushing for integration would have meant to acknowledge that those people are part of this country.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Honestly there is a piece of my brain that wonders why leaders like Erdogan want to continue to centralize and usurp power from others for themselves. Surely he can get a nice pension, go move to Cote D'Azur or something and have a nice retirement which would be less stressful than running a train wreck of a country? There is something deeply odd about the obsession with power these people have and Obama correctly pointed it out a few years ago in Ethiopia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkQ6HQCbuE

He is in a situation in which we Chinese call "Riding a Tiger and Not Being Able to Get Off (騎虎難下)."  Of course he can retire but his successor will not truly believe that he is really out of politics and will see him as a threat.  I doubt he can enjoy his large pension in peace for long before his successor will need to "look into" charges of his "corrupt activities" as a preventive move.

THIS

the more enemies you got, the more dangerous it is for you to let loose.

jelzin made a deal with putin granting him and his family immunity before sharing power.

[ApatheticAustrian]

i understand the logic behind the kurdish votes but is there any "proof" that his could REALLY have happened?

seems..radical.

[ApatheticAustrian]

and now confirmation....trump has congratulated erdogan.



https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/854130508036530176

[ApatheticAustrian]

by comparison neo-social democrats and neo-kurds are kind of liberal right now.