Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't
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  Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't
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Author Topic: Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't  (Read 1664 times)
DrScholl
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2016, 09:16:51 PM »

It's about the leadership. Moderate Republicans vote to put Mitch McConnell in as leader of the Senate and that means an agenda that is not moderate.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2016, 09:17:48 PM »

You're basically asking democrats to concede control of the Senate to the republicans.
Not really, because he also demands this from Republicans.

Party competition is kind of like the prisoner's dilemma for international relations.  Without any reason to trust the other party, they won't cooperate.  Whether it's also being asked of Republicans is irrelevant because Democrats have no reason to trust Republicans to cooperate and vice versa.
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2016, 11:36:47 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.

This is Moderate Heroism at it's peak.

These poor mean ol' Democrats trying to win elections! The audacity of it. They should be spending all their resources trying to defeat Louie Gohmert instead! Who cares if he's in an unwinnable seat, Democrats should be trying to help the party that's entire purpose is to destroy everything Democrats try to accomplish!
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2016, 02:09:31 AM »

The problem with trying to keep sane Republicans in office is that they so often talk a good game but then in their actions go along with the most insane behaviors.  Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare, even though just a few years prior it had been a Republican suggestion.  All these sane Republicans voted to shut down the federal government to assuage Ted Cruz's ego.  All these sane Republicans repeatedly attempted to crash the world economy by defaulting on the debt ceiling.  All these sane Republicans are currently blockading the most worthy Supreme Court nominee in decades, solely to give a middle finger to Obama.  These are not matters of policy.  This is reckless partisan hackery at the expense of the country, point blank.  "Boooo democrats, Jeff Flake and Joe Heck are such nice guys, but you ruin everything by trying to defeat them."  They may be nice guys and have some decent ideas in private but once they get in the Senate they pull sh*t like this:

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and at that point they're no better than Ted Cruz.

Now that doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of reckless political hacks who put their political hackery ahead of the country on the Democratic side as well.  But the way the Democrats practice that political hackery is far less dangerous and destructive.  The worst the Democrats ever did was when they tried to defund the Iraq War as a middle finger to Bush, but that never went anywhere, and I'm pretty confident that if it had had any chance of actually becoming anything more than just political theatre, the party would have shut it down, because defunding an ongoing war for political purposes is an insane, stupid thing to do.  The GOP seems to have no such qualms.

Show me a Republican with the integrity to actually do what they know is right and not +1 these stupid, destructive escapades that the Congressional Republican majority is obsessed with, and I might just vote for him.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2016, 07:57:00 AM »

It's about the leadership. Moderate Republicans vote to put Mitch McConnell in as leader of the Senate and that means an agenda that is not moderate.
I guess I can't vote for House Democrats then. Nancy Pelosi is more extreme than McConnell.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2016, 10:05:52 AM »

Everything Lyin' Steve and Wolfentoad have said applies to Democratic Senators as well (in fact much more so).

Actually, WaPo had an article measuring about that in 2015 and both parties had similar numbers of mavericks in the Senate.  On close votes, Manchin, Heitkamp, Donnelly, and McCaskill all voted against their party over 20% of the time.  On the Republican side, only Collins and Ayotte were over 20%, though Kirk and Heller came close to it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/11/here-are-the-members-of-congress-who-vote-against-their-party-the-most/
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2016, 04:17:18 PM »

Counting ideology by voting in the Senate is almost always faulty. I'd say they are about even, but Democrats thought they could take down Collins in 2013. Republicans were under no such illusions in 2011.

If you don't believe me about the faultiness, maybe you realize that Kirk is more moderate than Ayotte.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2016, 04:47:40 PM »

Counting ideology by voting in the Senate is almost always faulty. I'd say they are about even, but Democrats thought they could take down Collins in 2013. Republicans were under no such illusions in 2011.

If you don't believe me about the faultiness, maybe you realize that Kirk is more moderate than Ayotte.

I agree that Kirk has a more moderate persona than Ayotte.  In terms of actual votes, I'm not sure there's a huge difference between them apart from maybe a couple hot button issues that Kirk probably voted for or against because he's from Illinois.  A lot of the mavericky behavior in the Senate seems to happen more on amendments than on actual final votes, and Ayotte is just as active as Kirk on those.
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