Evolution is "Just a theory" : Mike Pence to Congress in 2002.

[Sorenroy]

I just think it is hypocritical that people are so quick to bash YECs while simultaneously claiming to be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles and beliefs.

It's one thing to say support alternative lifestyles and beliefs and another to let something like this slide. If you said that you believed that the Earth was flat I wouldn't send you to prison, but I certainly wouldn't agree or allow you to get away with saying that without an argument.

On that same note, when talking about supporting "alternative lifestyles and beliefs", the lifestyle of being ignorant is not one of them. Believing that evolution is "just a theory" is not on the same level as having a belief in Christianity or Islam. Those are two separate things. It's not being against "alternative lifestyles and beliefs" to believe that evolution should be taught in schools either.



On a side note, isn't it interesting that this "theory", the Theory of Evolution, is the only one really ever brought up like it's debateable. You never hear debates from the religious/conservative side about the Asymptotic Theory for example.

[SWE]

I think that the main issue here is anyone who claims to be tolerant is a moron.

[White Trash]

A Republican says something Republican. Wow.

[Maxwell]

Trump and Pence each represent everything wrong with modern conservatism/Republicanism in their own ways.

[Higgs]

As an ardent supporter of evolutionary theory and opponent of young earth creationism, who cares. He's running for vice president, his opinions on evolution will have no effect on anything.

Btw, is anyone actually surprised by this?

[Maxwell]

Pence's obtuse religious beliefs have already endangered lives in Indiana.

[Ebowed]

Yes, let's make fun of creationists because they are so dumb. Is this really the best you can do?

Not every Creationist denies evolutionary theory. It's called Theistic Evolution.

Yes, and my own beliefs are probably closer to Theistic Evolution than YEC. I just think it is hypocritical that people are so quick to bash YECs while simultaneously claiming to be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles and beliefs.

That's not what is happening here.  You may as well complain about people being intolerant of anti-vaccine views.  Willful ignorance is dangerous and it has serious consequences.  The creationists have been trying to infiltrate the public school system and use taxpayer funding to mislead children with religious beliefs such as "intelligent design."  If people don't understand the scientific method, it's hardly surprising when they reject the scientific consensus on issues like climate change or vaccines.

Religious tolerance doesn't mean the intentional propagation of falsehoods.  If politicians of other faiths let these sorts of views influence their policy making, they would be rightfully called out for it.  There's no need for double standards here.

[7,052,770]

As an ardent supporter of evolutionary theory and opponent of young earth creationism, who cares. He's running for vice president, his opinions on evolution will have no effect on anything.

Um ... he could cast the tiebreaking vote in a bill that mandates intelligent design be taught nationwide, or that a "sticker" but put in every science textbook declaring evolution is "just a theory," or any of the other asinine things red states do on this topic.

[Enduro]

Technically, it's both a law and a hypothesis

[PresidentSamTilden]

That's not what is happening here.  You may as well complain about people being intolerant of anti-vaccine views.  Willful ignorance is dangerous and it has serious consequences.  The creationists have been trying to infiltrate the public school system and use taxpayer funding to mislead children with religious beliefs such as "intelligent design."  If people don't understand the scientific method, it's hardly surprising when they reject the scientific consensus on issues like climate change or vaccines.

Religious tolerance doesn't mean the intentional propagation of falsehoods.  If politicians of other faiths let these sorts of views influence their policy making, they would be rightfully called out for it.  There's no need for double standards here.

Very well said. Climate change is arguably the most dangerous consequence of this culture of willful ignorance and science denial. It has to end.

[SWE]

Technically, it's both a law and a hypothesis

No, it's neither of those things. It's not a law because it can't be expressed as a mathematical formula that can be applied as a universal constant (laws are generally associated with physics and chemistry, rarely biology) and it's not a hypothesis because a hypothesis because that would mean it hasn't been repeatedly tested and confirmed.

Theories, laws, and hypotheses all refer to different things, nothing can be all three.

[pho]

The only voters who care about evolution are already voting for Clinton.

[EliteLX]

News at 6, evangelical staunch conservative white republican is a creationist.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

By the way, is Tim Kaine or Clinton a Creationist?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Ugh, how is this freak on a major party ticket? I don't know how many times I have to say it, but Donald Trump's advisors are fools. He should never have consulted them on this.

[Figueira]

For the record, the reason why we don't want creationists in charge of anything is that evolution is a pretty basic element of science, and science is something you need to have a basic understanding of if you're going to be in charge of a country.

I don't care what Mike Pence believes as long as he's not in a position of power.

[‼realJohnEwards‼]

Yes, let's make fun of creationists because they are so dumb. Is this really the best you can do?

Not every Creationist denies evolutionary theory. It's called Theistic Evolution.

Yes, and my own beliefs are probably closer to Theistic Evolution than YEC. I just think it is hypocritical that people are so quick to bash YECs while simultaneously claiming to be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles and beliefs.

The difference between YEC and whatever lifestyle you are referring to is that YEC is based upon the rejection of overwhelming evidence. Alternate beliefs are OK, but at this point denying evolution is like insisting that Trump is secretly winning by 20 points

[angus]

Mike Pence calls Evolution "Just a theory"

I always thought of it more as a process.  The theory part is natural selection, or sexual selection, or Had of God, or whatever you want to hypothesize.  The evolution itself is "just a process."

I guess he might have meant what some journals call "evolutionary theory."  That phrase is in use in scholarly publications.  Some people think that it needs a facelift.  For example, Darwin conceived of evolution by natural selection without knowing that genes exist.  Old school.  Nowadays, data focuses almost exclusively on genetic inheritance.  That has led to the development of extended evolutionary synthesis (EES).  Many evolutionary biologists are calling for a change in how evolution is conceptualized.  Some are downright hostile to EES.  This might be what Pence is talking about.  I watched the first minute or so, but I haven't watched the whole video.  Notably, he does say that Darwin's speculation on the "origin of species" is a theory.  He also references the "fossil record" which I think shows that he understands that Darwin had only that to go on, not modern genetics experiments.  I think Pence probably understands the term better than the thread title might lead us to believe.  His complaint mainly is that he's on the side of William Jennings Bryan, which involves the teaching of Darwin's theory in classes.  Specifically, how it is taught in public schools.  It's a legitimate complaint.  Biologists overall do have a different sense of science than practicioners of the physical sciences.  I've noticed that many times.  I may not agree with Pence specifically with regard to this issue--that is, I think natural selection is a valid interpretation of the evidence as Darwin saw it, and I think it is perfectly suitable for teaching in public high schools--but I agree there's a weird cultish attachment to it by many biologists.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I just think it is hypocritical that people are so quick to bash YECs while simultaneously claiming to be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles and beliefs.

It's one thing to say support alternative lifestyles and beliefs and another to let something like this slide. If you said that you believed that the Earth was flat I wouldn't send you to prison, but I certainly wouldn't agree or allow you to get away with saying that without an argument.

On that same note, when talking about supporting "alternative lifestyles and beliefs", the lifestyle of being ignorant is not one of them. Believing that evolution is "just a theory" is not on the same level as having a belief in Christianity or Islam. Those are two separate things. It's not being against "alternative lifestyles and beliefs" to believe that evolution should be taught in schools either.



On a side note, isn't it interesting that this "theory", the Theory of Evolution, is the only one really ever brought up like it's debateable. You never hear debates from the religious/conservative side about the Asymptotic Theory for example.

Well, the thing with evolution is if you start to accept it, you start to go against what originally appears to be the obvious interpretation of the bible. Even if you're not a conservative bible-literalist type, trying to jive the "six days" thing in Genesis with evolutionary theory puts up a lot of questions very quickly. For instance, why was the word days used and not "periods", or "sections of time"? How was Adam born as an adult? Why are we the one species that God elected to grant salvation to if we just developed through evolution - why not neanderthals? As a theistic evolutionist myself, I believe there are answers to these questions and others, even if the answer won't come until we personally ask god about it once we get to Heaven.

Of course, despite this, YEC's have a much harder battle to fight as they have to throw out everything scientists believe we know about the age of the earth, when certain species existed (DINOSAURS), dating methods (while I agree the flood could have made things be quite off, and so the scientific age of the earth may not be exactly on the mark, the dating methods being off by billions of years is something I see as quite ridiculous) , and evolution to get to their argument.

[Torie]

Well, it is a theory supported by a vast body of scientific evidence. I suspect that distinction was lost on Representative Pence.

That about sums it up. Or he was disingenuously pandering.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Like
                                   Y
                                 T
                             I
                       V
                A

      R

  
G

Sorry. GRAVITY

Can you prove it? I mean, what if we're just glued to the face of the earth but don't notice?

CHECKMATE

But if we are glued to the surface of Earth, how can we move?

It's a special kind of glue, allowing us to move around.

[Cruzcrew]

Who care

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

If Kaine or Clinton said this, you guys would have a very different response.

[Bacon King]

If Kaine or Clinton said this, you guys would have a very different response.

lol nice meltdown

[Enduro]

Technically, it's both a law and a hypothesis

No, it's neither of those things. It's not a law because it can't be expressed as a mathematical formula that can be applied as a universal constant (laws are generally associated with physics and chemistry, rarely biology) and it's not a hypothesis because a hypothesis because that would mean it hasn't been repeatedly tested and confirmed.

Theories, laws, and hypotheses all refer to different things, nothing can be all three.

There are two kinds of evolution. I was referring to microevolution when saying it was a law, and every time evolution has been "tested" is either flawed, or proves creationism.