People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

[Intell]

People should put their community, society, and their fellow human being above anything else.

[°Leprechaun]

You're thinking about this upside-down and backwards.

A better way to frame it, and my belief, is that Christianity (and most religions) teach the best way to love and serve God is to love and serve others.

Feeding the hungry, giving to the poor, comforting the sick and elderly, etc. is how to love and serve God. Not the rituals of organized religion.

But that is NOT putting people first, God second.

An atheist can do all those things.

[Blue3]

You're thinking about this upside-down and backwards.

A better way to frame it, and my belief, is that Christianity (and most religions) teach the best way to love and serve God is to love and serve others.

Feeding the hungry, giving to the poor, comforting the sick and elderly, etc. is how to love and serve God. Not the rituals of organized religion.

But that is NOT putting people first, God second.

An atheist can do all those things.

Yes, definitely!

(I believe all Atheists will go to Heaven)

[°Leprechaun]

Blue3,

I am wondering, how much of the Bible should be taken literally, and how much of it is figurative? I know that you don't believe everything in the Bible is necessarily true, but I am wondering how much of it is simply a parable vs literal in your opinion.

[Blue3]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

[Greatest I am]

[

Of course I'm not fit for heaven.  I have sinned against a holy God and have no standing to merit favor with my own works, which are like filthy rags in God's sight.  Thank God that I can lean solely on Christ's righteousness, not my own.

So you can sin and make a victim of an all powerful God.

Wow. You are one powerful sinner.

Christian righteousness includes being homophobic and misogynous and following poor moral tenets like a no divorce policy and a sacrifice/justice policy that says it is somehow good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

You go ahead and promote such immoral tenets all you like. After all, Jesus said we would recognize his people by their works and deeds and you are showing all of us just who you are following.

It is not a moral God.

Regards
DL


 

[Greatest I am]

Yes, but I don't claim the Bible is the Word of God. That "cherry-picking" critique only works on the fundamentalist hypocrites.

And people are imperfect, and as I've said, I disagree with more traditional Christians on many things.
[/quote]

Any person with a decent moral sense will disagree with many of the Christian moral tenets.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

People should put their community, society, and their fellow human being above anything else.

If they are following good principles, for sure, but if not then we should all scrap the phrase, my group, right or wrong and follow the right principles.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Yahweh has been describes as follows.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

That is a fairly accurate rendering.

Are you saying that Jesus and his prick of a father are close in their thinking?

For instance, Yahweh is shown to torture and murder babies and children for what their parents have done. Read the King David story as well as the Egyptian story of the first born murdered by Yahweh.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

[Greatest I am]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

So you will honor and praise a genocidal son murdering God.

Who is your second choice for good morals, Hitler or Stalin?

Your own God or WORD tells you to judge yet you give such a vile satanic God a pass.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

[Ban my account ffs!]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

So you will honor and praise a genocidal son murdering God.

Who is your second choice for good morals, Hitler or Stalin?

Your own God or WORD tells you to judge yet you give such a vile satanic God a pass.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

I don't think you quite understand Christianity. 

For one:

Jesus is God.  So it's not a "son murdering God"... in that case God murdered himself.  God knew and felt the pain as did Jesus.  But he also knew (better than you) what it was all for.  Jesus is God and could easily have slipped away and avoided it.  But he walked that cross right onto Calvary anyway.

The rest is just blithering blather.  You obviously have a problem with this God you profess not to believe in.  Why don't you work that out with him rather than trying to drag people into this.

[Greatest I am]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

So you will honor and praise a genocidal son murdering God.

Who is your second choice for good morals, Hitler or Stalin?

Your own God or WORD tells you to judge yet you give such a vile satanic God a pass.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

I don't think you quite understand Christianity. 

For one:

Jesus is God.  So it's not a "son murdering God"... in that case God murdered himself.  God knew and felt the pain as did Jesus.  But he also knew (better than you) what it was all for.  Jesus is God and could easily have slipped away and avoided it.  But he walked that cross right onto Calvary anyway.

The rest is just blithering blather.  You obviously have a problem with this God you profess not to believe in.  Why don't you work that out with him rather than trying to drag people into this.

Because it is the people that are perpetuating the Christian immoral teaching as moral.

If your God murdered himself, it is still murder even though your own dogma says that God cannot die.

Lie to yourself all you like though. Christians have to to maintain their views of morality and to continue to respect a God who does not deserve it.

Regards
DL

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

So you will honor and praise a genocidal son murdering God.

Who is your second choice for good morals, Hitler or Stalin?

Your own God or WORD tells you to judge yet you give such a vile satanic God a pass.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

I don't think you quite understand Christianity. 

For one:

Jesus is God.  So it's not a "son murdering God"... in that case God murdered himself.  God knew and felt the pain as did Jesus.  But he also knew (better than you) what it was all for.  Jesus is God and could easily have slipped away and avoided it.  But he walked that cross right onto Calvary anyway.

The rest is just blithering blather.  You obviously have a problem with this God you profess not to believe in.  Why don't you work that out with him rather than trying to drag people into this.

Because it is the people that are perpetuating the Christian immoral teaching as moral.

If your God murdered himself, it is still murder even though your own dogma says that God cannot die.

Lie to yourself all you like though. Christians have to to maintain their views of morality and to continue to respect a God who does not deserve it.

Regards
DL

Jesus volunteered to take the death for our sins.  Murder is unlawful killing, but what we saw at the cross was perfect mercy combined with perfect justice - all the punishment we deserve for our sins was instead taken in our place by a merciful and loving God.  Praise be to the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world! 

You can call it murder or evil, but in reality it's the greatest love story every told:  Jesus died for your sins, and he offers eternal life to all those who repent and believe in his glorious Gospel.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Yahweh has been describes as follows.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

That is a fairly accurate rendering.

Richard Dawkins has been described thusly.

Also, you'd expect someone born to a British colonial administrator in 1941 to have enough of a Classical education to know that the most unpleasant character in fiction is in fact Agamemnon.

[Greatest I am]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Do you really see Jesus as able to do such monstrous things?

Regards
DL

Well, have you ever read Matthew 10:15, Matthew 13:42, and Luke 12:5?

And the idea that we mortal humans can stand in judgment of the God who knows everything is laughable.  He is sovereign, not us, and he is worthy of all glory, honor, and praise.

So you will honor and praise a genocidal son murdering God.

Who is your second choice for good morals, Hitler or Stalin?

Your own God or WORD tells you to judge yet you give such a vile satanic God a pass.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

I don't think you quite understand Christianity. 

For one:

Jesus is God.  So it's not a "son murdering God"... in that case God murdered himself.  God knew and felt the pain as did Jesus.  But he also knew (better than you) what it was all for.  Jesus is God and could easily have slipped away and avoided it.  But he walked that cross right onto Calvary anyway.

The rest is just blithering blather.  You obviously have a problem with this God you profess not to believe in.  Why don't you work that out with him rather than trying to drag people into this.

Because it is the people that are perpetuating the Christian immoral teaching as moral.

If your God murdered himself, it is still murder even though your own dogma says that God cannot die.

Lie to yourself all you like though. Christians have to to maintain their views of morality and to continue to respect a God who does not deserve it.

Regards
DL

Jesus volunteered to take the death for our sins.  Murder is unlawful killing, but what we saw at the cross was perfect mercy combined with perfect justice - all the punishment we deserve for our sins was instead taken in our place by a merciful and loving God.  Praise be to the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world! 

You can call it murder or evil, but in reality it's the greatest love story every told:  Jesus died for your sins, and he offers eternal life to all those who repent and believe in his glorious Gospel.

If you want to chat, do not start with a lie.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Being chosen is not volunteering and only the most immoral will see the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty as perfect justice.

Ask any judge anywhere.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have some contradictions, but seem to agree on basic points about the life and teachings of Jesus. Some of the other books of the New Testament, and a few passages of the Old Testament, definitely seem inspired by God and match the message of Jesus.

Yahweh has been describes as follows.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

That is a fairly accurate rendering.

Richard Dawkins has been described thusly.

Also, you'd expect someone born to a British colonial administrator in 1941 to have enough of a Classical education to know that the most unpleasant character in fiction is in fact Agamemnon.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

You speak of the messenger instead of the message.

Do you agree with his description of Yahweh?

Regards
DL

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Do you agree with his description of Yahweh?

No.

[Greatest I am]

Do you agree with his description of Yahweh?

No.

Then your moral sense is quite off the mark.

If you like that genocidal Yahweh, then you must really love Hitler as he used the same tactics.

Regards
DL

[Blue3]

Can you tone down the condescending arrogance?

[Greatest I am]

Can you tone down the condescending arrogance?

No.

That would take me discussing things with an intelligent and moral Christian and those are few and far between.

The few I find with both those characteristics do not need or get my tone and condescension. They do not need to come out with intelligent and moral people.

Regards
DL

[Blue3]

How very Un-Christian of you.

So similar to this perception of God you hate.

[Greatest I am]

How very Un-Christian of you.

So similar to this perception of God you hate.

Any who do not hate a genocidal son murdering God are showing just what kind of God they like.

More of a Satan than a God.

Regards
DL

[Blue3]

How very Un-Christian of you.

So similar to this perception of God you hate.

Any who do not hate a genocidal son murdering God are showing just what kind of God they like.

More of a Satan than a God.

Regards
DL

You make a lot of assumptions, and like to attack strawmen.

I've given my personal views.

I bet others don't think of God as actually being genocidal, or son-murdering.

[Greatest I am]

How very Un-Christian of you.

So similar to this perception of God you hate.

Any who do not hate a genocidal son murdering God are showing just what kind of God they like.

More of a Satan than a God.

Regards
DL

You make a lot of assumptions, and like to attack strawmen.

I've given my personal views.

I bet others don't think of God as actually being genocidal, or son-murdering.

Only those with their heads in the sand and who have a poor sense of morality.

How is killing all but eight humans in Noah's flood not genocide?

If that does not indicate a genocidal God, then what does it indicate to you?

Regards
DL