Satanic Temple to open elementary school programs

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I don't know what to make of this other than it sounds like /r/atheism after-school, in which case I don't know why they can't come out with it and call themselves atheists besides covering it with neo-Paganistic cloth.

[Ebsy]

lol

[Antonio the Sixth]

lol

^ literally what I was going to post

[dead0man]

Sounds good other than the stupid, trolly name.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't know what to make of this other than it sounds like /r/atheism after-school, in which case I don't know why they can't come out with it and call themselves atheists besides covering it with neo-Paganistic cloth.

They should rename themselves Church of Euphoria.

[Wells]

Okay. They can go do that.

[afleitch]

Good.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's deliberately based on a shallow and culturally meaningless joke?

[afleitch]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's deliberately based on a shallow and culturally meaningless joke?

Chill.  This will go nowhere.  These guys troll all the time.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

Did you not read the description, or are you just being disingenuous?

[afleitch]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

Did you not read the description, or are you just being disingenuous?

No. I'm asking you why deconstructing these concessions to religion, using the systems the state has put in place, is not as valid or as important as constructing them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

Did you not read the description, or are you just being disingenuous?

No. I'm asking you why deconstructing these concessions to religion, using the systems the state has put in place, is not as valid or as important as constructing them.

Well, for one, it's not actually gonna work, since aside from a few hipsters I can't see many parents bringing their kids to a "Satanic Temple" for afterschool. Rhetorically I really can't see what it achieves, and as a secular rationalist myself I'm annoyed to see people in that vein mimicking religion instead of actually trying to promote alternative social organizations. But that's no big deal, mockery is part of the discourse and that's fine.

What's utterly ridiculous is seeing you cheer on this mockery while calling actual religions dumb and childish.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

So basically, it is your average atheist program with double the usual edgelordness. Ok.

[RINO Tom]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

Did you not read the description, or are you just being disingenuous?

No. I'm asking you why deconstructing these concessions to religion, using the systems the state has put in place, is not as valid or as important as constructing them.

Well, for one, it's not actually gonna work, since aside from a few hipsters I can't see many parents bringing their kids to a "Satanic Temple" for afterschool. Rhetorically I really can't see what it achieves, and as a secular rationalist myself I'm annoyed to see people in that vein mimicking religion instead of actually trying to promote alternative social organizations. But that's no big deal, mockery is part of the discourse and that's fine.

What's utterly ridiculous is seeing you cheer on this mockery while calling actual religions dumb and childish.

Angry, self righteous jerk acts the part, per usual.  Surprised it surprised you.

[afleitch]

What's utterly ridiculous is seeing you cheer on this mockery while calling actual religions dumb and childish.

Yeah. Because that's clearly what I do

[Antonio the Sixth]

What's utterly ridiculous is seeing you cheer on this mockery while calling actual religions dumb and childish.

Yeah. Because that's clearly what I do

You basically compared religion to an addiction a few months ago.

[afleitch]

What's utterly ridiculous is seeing you cheer on this mockery while calling actual religions dumb and childish.

Yeah. Because that's clearly what I do

You basically compared religion to an addiction a few months ago.

You know I don't do one liners like that. You know I put a lot into posts on religion and philosophy. Again, don't be cheap.

This is what I said;

Not only that, Pascal’s Wager fails because there merely aren’t two belief systems of which one is correct (or both not correct to no net detriment to the believer), there are countless. It could well be that Zeus is pretty pissed with ALL of us right now. The idea that choosing to believe in one version of god will do you ‘good’ if it turns out there is a god, even if that avatar god is completely the opposite of what you believe is nothing more than wishful thinking. The real god might not want to be found. At which point atheists get rewarded.

In terms of those who have expressed a ‘need’ for Christianity to find beauty, structure, meaning etc, I’m intrigued on what basis have you determined that this provides/supports this as opposed to another faith or none (other than it being rhetorically effective)? Given that there are examples of individuals who demonstrate this to be the case. What prevents you from exploring these options? On what basis can you compare the ‘happiness’ from which you draw, with another state of ‘happiness’ which someone derives from some other reference?

I can understand why humans demonstrate a need for ‘validation’; the need for their actions to be recognised and appraised as individuals within our social groups, but to project that outwards asking for the personification of universe to validate you is one of the strangest avenues for the human mind to wander. Despite protestations to the contrary, there is a selfish (which is not my favourite word but I’ll use it here) component to following a ‘reward’ based faith.

If that is how faith is viewed; as a need to define oneself, to make one feel organised, synchronous, valued and motivated is it not then a dependency?. Given that a dependency/psychosis by definition may not have any basis in what is good, what is right or what is true, why should you be trusted? Why should you trust someone that says ‘I need this’ or ‘You need this because it did x for me’?

It’s not an analogy I would expect anyone to like and I am clearly not suggesting that religious belief is an addiction more than any other communal activity or personal philosophy. But not being able to even comprehend that you could see yourself or see the world through clear eyes and clear minds without it as a reference and feeling that you will somehow fall way from yourself is not to put it mildly, a healthy outlook.

And here’s the thing. When you stand on the street in front of a Christian preacher after spending a half hour discussing the New Testament and years of ‘Nathaning’ about religion and you whisper to yourself; ‘I don’t think God exists’ and then those words actually leave your mouth, it’s like a punch in the gut. And it smarts for a few days and then it’s fine. You still get up in the morning, you are still the same person. You don’t become ‘better’ but you don’t become ‘worse’ as an individual. Because you realise that who you are as a person has always been independent from what you believed. Your faith was never ‘informing the rest of you’.
You think you need something until you don’t. You don’t replace it with a need to be really really really really NOT believe in god, because the whole concept removes itself from your general list of priorities.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Fair enough, I didn't remember you had taken that precaution. That post remains deeply condescending nonetheless.

I'll also remind you that we had a very interesting and substantive discussion in the wake of that post, until you abruptly stopped responding.

[LLR]

Great! I will send my future children there.

[afleitch]

Fair enough, I didn't remember you had taken that precaution. That post remains deeply condescending nonetheless.

I'll also remind you that we had a very interesting and substantive discussion in the wake of that post, until you abruptly stopped responding.

Yes. Sharing a personal experience is clearly condescending. And substantive discussions (of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember) that reach a natural end are in fact indications of me being 'abrupt'.

And this post is probably 'aggressive in tone'...

[Antonio the Sixth]

(of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember)

Uh, yes, people tend to remember certain things and forget others. Are you implying something?

The discussion clearly hadn't reached a "natural" end since I was challenging your arguments and even explicitly asking questions. If you didn't want to respond just say you didn't want to respond, don't look for excuses.

[afleitch]

(of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember)

Uh, yes, people tend to remember certain things and forget others. Are you implying something?

The discussion clearly hadn't reached a "natural" end since I was challenging your arguments and even explicitly asking questions. If you didn't want to respond just say you didn't want to respond, don't look for excuses.

I'm optioning that choice now, otherwise I'd say something I regret.

[Antonio the Sixth]

(of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember)

Uh, yes, people tend to remember certain things and forget others. Are you implying something?

The discussion clearly hadn't reached a "natural" end since I was challenging your arguments and even explicitly asking questions. If you didn't want to respond just say you didn't want to respond, don't look for excuses.

I'm optioning that choice now, otherwise I'd say something I regret.

By all means, speak your mind. You've already said enough for me not to be bothered by whatever else you might have to say.

[afleitch]

(of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember)

Uh, yes, people tend to remember certain things and forget others. Are you implying something?

The discussion clearly hadn't reached a "natural" end since I was challenging your arguments and even explicitly asking questions. If you didn't want to respond just say you didn't want to respond, don't look for excuses.

I'm optioning that choice now, otherwise I'd say something I regret.

By all means, speak your mind. You've already said enough for me not to be bothered by whatever else you might have to say.

And again...

Use this as an opportunity to reflect on why many people think you're an asshole. It might help you in the future.