Duterte Harry: The Philippines General Discussion (read the last post)

[Small L]

Anyone who has been following this story closely will know that there has been a lot of tension between Duterte and the Church on this issue (and others) since even before he was elected president.

I suspect that waiting to openly confront Duterte was a pragmatic decision (as in, 'maybe we can talk him out of it in private first'). People make it sound like the bishops were just sitting around while individual priests and nuns worked against this to help people. I would not be surprised at all if those religious were acting with the support of their bishops.

Going by the Catholic Church's track record (like thinking Franco was the greatest), it's safe to say this has more to do with his expansion of birth control, pro-gay marriage stance and staunch anti-Catholicism than the actually terrible things he's doing.

BRTD, I'd like to know, since you consistently point out his positions on those issues, do you see Duterte as an opportunity to liberalize the Philippines?

I really hope you're not taking the attitude of 'at least he's good on that stuff,' because that is exactly the kind of sickening mentality that led (in the opposite direction) to Catholic support of fascism and dictatorship in Latin America and elsewhere.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's a shame, really. If not for the death squad thing (and related stuff) I'd likely have a positive view on Duterte due to his stances on birth control and LGBT rights. Unfortunately, given his actions, it'd be like a proverbial "Hitler did bad things BUT he build highways!"

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's a shame, really. If not for the death squad thing (and related stuff) I'd likely have a positive view on Duterte due to his stances on birth control and LGBT rights. Unfortunately, given his actions, it'd be like a proverbial "Hitler did bad things BUT he build highways!"

Basically that, yeah. He'd probably be one of my favorite world leaders if it wasn't for all the stuff people hate him for. Funnily if you remove his misogynistic comments, support for death squads and attacks on Obama Duterte actually looks pretty progressive.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's a shame, really. If not for the death squad thing (and related stuff) I'd likely have a positive view on Duterte due to his stances on birth control and LGBT rights. Unfortunately, given his actions, it'd be like a proverbial "Hitler did bad things BUT he build highways!"

Basically that, yeah. He'd probably be one of my favorite world leaders if it wasn't for all the stuff people hate him for. Funnily if you remove his misogynistic comments, support for death squads and attacks on Obama Duterte actually looks pretty progressive.

Indeed. I forgot about his certain comments.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

He would probably purge the Church's influence on the Philippine government which is arguably a good thing. The only problem is that his purging would probably result in countless more innocent deaths.

[Intell]

A thing to note, an anti-Durturte fillipino, told me is popular across the politcal establishment, and is supported by 90+% of fillipinos, and is currently the most popular president in fillinio president. The only people that oppose him are members of the liberal center-right political establishment. He is not going anywhere, especially if he funds social welfare services and improve social welfare and healthcare for everyone but especially the poor.

"Before making quick judgements about what President Duterte is doing about drugs, first realise that most haven't stepped a foot in Philippines and seen how drugs influence the people there. Drugs have become such a huge issue in Philippines for a long time, and this was a last resort. Drug dealers were warned; if they were caught dealing drugs they'd be killed."

- An Opinion by my other fillipino friend, who voted for Clinton.

He got elected with many ways a leftist platform, while siphoning votes from the right-wing fed up with the political establishment campaigning with a law and order and anti-corruption message, which managed to get lower-middle class  right-wing voters to vote for a more left-wing and "socialist" candidate aimed at targeting the "elite" and "business" who impoverish citizens by allowing drugs to ruin the Philippines, for their own profits.

He was and is still supported by nearly all of the left-wing in Phillpenes, as they did vote for him. He is also probably the only person, in fillipino history, with a lefitst messaging a lot of the time, with aspects of a campaign for the "social", a campaign for the wider society, a campaign aimed at adressing the failures of capitalism, while not refraining from socialism, (at one time he called him self a socialist though") to be elected ( he has not attacked socialism, and in many cases said he understands the need for aspects of it). he used the word used with many asians leftists are a "social" democracy, social and democracy being seperate.

People may think that's weird, but the asian left-wing is arguably the ones most anti-drugs (along with prostitutuion and gambling).

Maoists in Nepal heavily punished even killed people for trading drugs, it being a capitalistic evil and all, Indian socialists are firmly anti-drugs (in rhetoric anyway), while "capitalists, along with rest of the political establishment" for a lack of a better description, are seen as allowing this grave evil to exist for their profit and power. I assume this is the Philippines.

People need to understand the scenario, on why Durterte got elected, his platform and more etc.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

His socialism is very, err, vulgar though (in both senses of the word). He's always been the sort of person that goes on gut impulses, rather than clearly thinking; which is why he's recently reversed himself and gone hard-line on the Maoist rebels (even though some of them serve in his cabinet lol).

Anyway, let's not go full on "trains run on time". Yes I understand why poor and provincial Filipinos support him after being dicked around by half hearted land reform since the Cory administration, but we have the luxury of seeing the bigger picture: his mobilisation of a wave of reactionary state thugs targeted at the poorest in society.

Same as we can sympathise with people who vote for Thaksin Shinawatra or whatever, but we can recognise that him and his administration weren't some great success for the ordinary people of Thailand.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Anyway, let's not go full on "trains run on time". Yes I understand why poor and provincial Filipinos support him after being dicked around by half hearted land reform since the Cory administration, but we have the luxury of seeing the bigger picture: his mobilisation of a wave of reactionary state thugs targeted at the poorest in society.

Again though, it's not the intent that matters anymore to a lot of Pilipinos. It's the results. As far as they're concerned, the results are more important than anything else. Let's be real -- the Pilipino social structure is totally screwed up. When your family is constantly being torn apart and you're having to focus on sending one kid to school so that they can go abroad to become a teacher or a maid or something to support the entire family (grandparents, parents, and siblings included) or your mother or your father end up having to do the same, the entire society eventually ends up in some form of psychological distress. It's really been the failure of every administration post-Cory to provide an appropriate social service structure that's lead to this point. That said, without Marcos going stupid, the Philippines might already be a South Korea-level power.

[Intell]

His socialism is very, err, vulgar though (in both senses of the word). He's always been the sort of person that goes on gut impulses, rather than clearly thinking; which is why he's recently reversed himself and gone hard-line on the Maoist rebels (even though some of them serve in his cabinet lol).

Anyway, let's not go full on "trains run on time". Yes I understand why poor and provincial Filipinos support him after being dicked around by half hearted land reform since the Cory administration, but we have the luxury of seeing the bigger picture: his mobilisation of a wave of reactionary state thugs targeted at the poorest in society.

Same as we can sympathise with people who vote for Thaksin Shinawatra or whatever, but we can recognise that him and his administration weren't some great success for the ordinary people of Thailand.

I'm just stating, why Durterte got elected and his popular support, people are stating as if Philippines now is a fascist state, and all fillipinos are stupid murderers or anything.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

We appear to have missed it, but bringing back death penalty seems pretty much a matter of weeks now.

[ApatheticAustrian]

We appear to have missed it, but bringing back death penalty seems pretty much a matter of weeks now.

somehow this made me giggle in real life right now.

not cause of the gruesome topic....but cause of the assumption, the death penalty would be outlawed right now.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

We appear to have missed it, but bringing back death penalty seems pretty much a matter of weeks now.

somehow this made me giggle in real life right now.

not cause of the gruesome topic....but cause of the assumption, the death penalty would be outlawed right now.

Yeah, one sad irony.

From what I've read the House passed it already with the Senate expected to follow. Then all it's need is Duterte's little signature.

According to the bill, death sentences will be executed by hanging, firing squad or lethal injection... a very vague provision if you ask me.

"Fun fact": when Ramos had death penalty reinstated after coming into office, the bill states execution shall be carried out by electric chair "until gas chamber is installed". The Philippines are the only state to use electrocution aside of the U.S.

But when Ramos' justice minister went to America to buy a gas chamber, they told him they're nor manufacturing it anymore, so he bought lethal injection equipment, which was subsequently used. The chair was never used again, because nothing remained aside of a scorched mark on the floor of death chamber.

Here's the only photo of Filipino's electric chair (active 1926-1976 IIRC) I could find:

 

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Speaking of electric chairs worldwide (God, how come I remember this stuff):

In 1900s Cuba was about to adopt electrocution, but it never came. When Gerardo Machado came to power he reinstated the garrote instead, which was in use until 1930s.

The UK commission on death penalty considered replacing hanging with the chair in 1950s, but decided against recommending it.

Not a legal punishment, but Trujillo's regime in the Dominican Republic used their very own electric chair to torture and kill political opponents. Its graphically described in Vargas Llosa's novel.

The urban legend says Emperor Menelik II of Ethiopia ordered three chairs from America, but upon discovering they had no power grid, he used one as a throne. It's obviously a myth.

I recall reading somewhere that during Haile Selassie's rule Ethiopian security forces used similar device as Trujillo's thugs on Dominicana, but I can't verify this.

[BaldEagle1991]

I can't wait to see Duterte and Trump meet up. The press would have a great time.

[MAINEiac4434]

I can't wait to see Duterte and Trump meet up. The press would have a great time.

It'd probably lead to a goddamn war.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It occurred to me yesterday that this is exactly the kind of situation in which it would be morally justified for the US to do to him what they did to Allende. But of course, it won't.

[Intell]

It occurred to me yesterday that this is exactly the kind of situation in which it would be morally justified for the US to do to him what they did to Allende. But of course, it won't.

no, just no.

[BaldEagle1991]

I can't wait to see Duterte and Trump meet up. The press would have a great time.

It'd probably lead to a goddamn war.

Probably not, considering they're the same type of people. They agree on a lot of stuff.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It occurred to me yesterday that this is exactly the kind of situation in which it would be morally justified for the US to do to him what they did to Allende. But of course, it won't.

no, just no.

This. In long term it would have a disastrous effects on the Philippines and its relations with the world.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Top critic of Philippine leader lauds policemen over cash-for-kills claim]

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[SoLongAtlas]

Xi apparently warned Duterte, threatened war over SCS https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/world/asia/philippines-south-china-sea-duterte-war.html

[Santander]

https://www.rt.com/news/390053-duterte-hire-separatists-soldiers/

[TheSaint250]

I can see why this would be a good idea, but giving separatists in any country any power is pretty bad, especially when it's your own government pushing for it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

These sort of things never end up biting you in the ass later.

[TML]

Duterte had a mostly confrontational relationship with Obama, but he seems to have dropped his confrontational language after Trump got elected. This makes me wonder: if the US gets another Democratic/left-leaning president by 2022, will Duterte (if he is still in office) revert to his confrontational rhetoric with that person, like he did with Obama?