Dean says something good

[Beet]

CEDAR RAPIDS — Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean kept up his frontal assault on Republicans Saturday and urged Iowa Democrats to go toe-to-toe with the GOP on "values" issues.

"We are not going to be afraid to talk about moral values," the former Vermont governor told 500 Democrats gathered for the party's Hall of Fame banquet.

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find gay marriage mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"Dean said.

No party has a monopoly on morality.

[Ebowed]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.  Pretty slick, but it doesn't fool me.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.  Pretty slick, but it doesn't fool me.

Which is exactly what the Democrats should be doing

[A18]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Bible was written thousands of years ago; political and economic conditions were vastly different to what they are now.
That it finds poverty to be a moral issue is hardly a controversual point of view.

And I think you'll find that homosexuality hardly get's mentioned in the Bible (I'm not sure if it is at all); what is mention and condemmed a couple of times is sex between two people of the same sex.

[Alcon]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

[Blue Rectangle]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

Exactly right, Alcon.  The Old Testament is almost entirely devoted to cautionary examples of why idol worship is bad.  I'm sure it is mentioned more times than charity.  Is Dean going to ban idol worship?  Of course Dean is a hypocrite; there is a long list of Biblically prescribed and prosribed policies that he wouldn't dream of considering: rules for slave ownership, laws for animal sacrifice, smiting unbelievers, stoning homosexuals to death, etc.

[TomC]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

Exactly right, Alcon.  The Old Testament is almost entirely devoted to cautionary examples of why idol worship is bad.  I'm sure it is mentioned more times than charity.  Is Dean going to ban idol worship?  Of course Dean is a hypocrite; there is a long list of Biblically prescribed and prosribed policies that he wouldn't dream of considering: rules for slave ownership, laws for animal sacrifice, smiting unbelievers, stoning homosexuals to death, etc.

More examples of why it should be left out of public debate.

[WalterMitty]

democrats help the poor?

that is certainly news to me.

last i checked chicago and dc had pretty substantial problems with poverty.  cant exactly blame the failure of those cities on republicans.

[A18]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

The government can enforce anything, but enforcing either of those is absurd.

I find no Biblical justification for helping the poor with other people's property. My parents have given plenty to charity, and I imagine most rich people have done the same. That's between them and God, and no one else.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I find no Biblical justification

Ooooooooh, so you're an "expert" on the Bible as well? Amazing. Is there anything you don't regard yourself as the ultimate authority on?

[A18]

Okay, troll

[opebo]

democrats help the poor?

that is certainly news to me.

last i checked chicago and dc had pretty substantial problems with poverty.  cant exactly blame the failure of those cities on republicans.

This is an unreasonable criticism.  No area which contains only poor people, while the rich have fled to other areas (such as suburbs), can eliminate poverty.  Poverty can only be reduced though broad redistribution, not just redistribution within the slum or ghetto.

[TheresNoMoney]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

[Beet]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

Note, Dean could just as easily have said

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find abortion mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"

[Gabu]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

Exactly right, Alcon.  The Old Testament is almost entirely devoted to cautionary examples of why idol worship is bad.  I'm sure it is mentioned more times than charity.  Is Dean going to ban idol worship?  Of course Dean is a hypocrite; there is a long list of Biblically prescribed and prosribed policies that he wouldn't dream of considering: rules for slave ownership, laws for animal sacrifice, smiting unbelievers, stoning homosexuals to death, etc.

You could just as easily say the same about Republicans who quote the Bible to death.  The fact of the matter is that the reason that the Republicans do so well with religious voters is because many Republicans talk about the Bible and Christian stuff a heck of a lot.  I personally see nothing wrong with Dean simply doing the same thing.  I would personally prefer it if both sides just shut up about it and stopped bringing the Bible into politics, but that's obviously not going to happen, so referencing the Bible more often is, in my mind, a smart thing for Democrats to do.

[A18]

Those issues have nothing to do with public policy. When you're compassionate with your own money, it's called charity. When you're compassionate with other people's money, it's called theft.

Of course, decent charity would go to putting people on their own two feet, not just welfare-type policies. Also, research on diseases and such.

[The Vorlon]

I do not claim to be a biblical scholar by any means, but a casual reading of the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah might suggest that the Christian faith holds gay marriage somewhat out of favor, at least to my admittedly uneducated eye.

"Marriage" is none of the Government's business - let's leave it to the churches.  Government has a legitimate function ensuring adults live up to the obligations they assume when the have children, and also in the fair distribution of common property when a relationship dissolves.

As for the "morality" part.... um.. separation of church and state... I thank that was important to the founding fathers.. as I recall..

[Shira]

I have yet to find anything about helping the poor with other people's money recommended in the Bible.

Homosexuality is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, so just saying 'gay marriage' isn't mentioned is dumb, plain and simple.

In the Bible, it lauds charity. It is against gay relationships.

So the government can enforce a ban on gay relationships, but not enforce mandated charity?

Not charity is needed but rather a smart taxation system which will include “negative taxes” such as healthcare and education systems for every one.

[Ebowed]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

Note, Dean could just as easily have said

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find abortion mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"

Yeah, he could have said that, but it wouldn't have been a good idea.

[minionofmidas]

I do not claim to be a biblical scholar by any means, but a casual reading of the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah might suggest that the Christian faith holds gay marriage somewhat out of favor, at least to my admittedly uneducated eye.

Except that that story is about homosexual rape.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

When you're compassionate with other people's money, it's called theft.

Except the Bible doesn't see taxation as theft.

Render unto Caesar?

[Democratic Hawk]

No party has a monopoly on morality.

Quite

Dave

[Democratic Hawk]

The Bible was written thousands of years ago; political and economic conditions were vastly different to what they are now.
That it finds poverty to be a moral issue is hardly a controversual point of view.

In a nutshell, that is very true. Biblical, and Christian, tenets need to be applied in the context of 'now' rather than 'than'. Society, and its issues, are much more complicated now. Contemporary 'moral' issues, simply, weren't issues back then because they hadn't even occurred

Dave

[A18]

When you're compassionate with other people's money, it's called theft.

Except the Bible doesn't see taxation as theft.

Render unto Caesar?

Taxation, in general, is not theft. The point is whether or not the taxation can be justified.

Being compassionate with other people's money is theft. Securing people's rights, on the other hand, is just cause for taxation.