Is Amnesty International an "absurd" group of American Haters?

[Palefire]

Our President has decided to call Amnesty International an absurd group of people that hate America due to there insistence that the USA do the following:

End all secret and incommunicado detentions;
Grant the International Committee of the Red Cross full access to all detainees including those held in secret locations;
Ensure recourse to the law for all detainees;
Establish a full independent commission of inquiry into all allegations of torture, ill-treatment, arbitrary detentions and "disappearances";
Bring to justice anyone responsible for authorizing or committing human rights violations

So - are human rights groups now Anti-American. Does the GOP find human rights to be "absurd"? Has Bush completely lost it?

* edited to fix my 't' heavy spelling:)

[Jake]

They have interests that are diametrically opposed to America's further success in the War on Terror. Whether that makes them "anti-American" is pure opinion.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, 5 yes votes out of 8. That's sad.
5 out of 7 before I voted.

[Akno21]

I don't know, but watching the video of Bush disputing their claim was very unconvincing, and almost funny.

[Jake]

Link? I love watching his misspeaks

[A18]

I believe it was the report that was labeled absurd, not human rights. Actually, I know so, because I watched the press conference—but thanks for lying, as you typically do. Or are you just confused?

I further believe that this is a group that relies on the words of former detainees as some kind of objective source of information.

That brilliant, objective report - you know, based on what former detainees trained to lie about this stuff had to say - accused America of torture.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," was their conclusion.

That's a joke, their report was a joke, and if they're not jokes, then they're having a great time laughing at their report right about now.

By the way, please learn how to spell Amnesty.

[The Duke]

Given that the basis of their report is the testimony of detained terrorists (even Amnesty does not dispute this fact to my knowledge) I cannot accept at face value the idea that torture at Gitmo is proven.  Far from it, Gitmo has actually been very open about what the standards are for prisoner treatment and has taken disciplinary action against MPs and interrogators who violate these rules.

[opebo]

Amnesty International has been very lenient in its judgements of the thuggish Bush regime. 

[Richard]

Yes, even I as a Canadian African American can see that Amnesty International hates the United States.

[opebo]

Yes, even I as a Canadian African American can see that Amnesty International hates the United States.

Well, only in the sense that they dislike America's abuse of human rights.

[A18]

Did you not read anything in this topic? This is based on the testimony of a bunch of former detainees. Yeah, they sure are trustworthy people. Probably a bunch of great guys, locked up by intolerant prudes and religious for visiting prostitutes at the wrong place, at the wrong time! Those crazy religious!

[opebo]

Did you not read anything in this topic? This is based on the testimony of a bunch of former detainees. Yeah, they sure are trustworthy people. Probably a bunch of great guys, locked up by intolerant prudes and religious for visiting prostitutes at the wrong place, at the wrong time! Those crazy religious!

Well, who else are you going to get testimony from about torture, other than the tortured?  I don't imagine there are a lot of disinterested third parties in those dungeons.

[A18]

Thanks for admitting there is no objective source for these claims, and therefore, the report is absurd.

[opebo]

Thanks for admitting there is no objective source for these claims, and therefore, the report is absurd.

I know nothing about the report.  But I assume that where there is secrecy, there is torture.  This seems rather obvious.  The State only refrains from such practices where openness to the press and human rights organizations prevent it.  Since this openness is not the case in Guantanamo, it is reasonable to assume that what is going on there is torture.

[Sam Spade]

It's too bad someone didn't add another 't' to the title of this thread.

"Is Amnestitty International an "absurd" group of American Haters?"

[Cubby]

I believe it was the report that was labeled absurd, not human rights. Actually, I know so, because I watched the press conference—but thanks for lying, as you typically do. Or are you just confused?

I further believe that this is a group that relies on the words of former detainees as some kind of objective source of information.

That brilliant, objective report - you know, based on what former detainees trained to lie about this stuff had to say - accused America of torture.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," was their conclusion.

That's a joke, their report was a joke, and if they're not jokes, then they're having a great time laughing at their report right about now.

By the way, please learn how to spell Amnesty.

Don't be a hypocrite. I bet 20 years ago if people escaped Soviet Gulags you'd believe every word of their testimony. Of course Guantanamo abuses human rights.

The point is, the Abu Grhaib scandal & Bush election victory proves Americans don't give a damn about any abuses of human rights as long as they occur in foreign countries. Amnesty is being very brave. You conservatives can hate their political agenda. But its dangerous when you turn your back on all human rights, as the poll in this thread seems to show.

On another note, it was strange of Bush himself to publicly dispute the report. It must have struck a nerve with him or Karl thought it might hurt in the polls.

[opebo]

The point is, the Abu Grhaib scandal & Bush election victory proves Americans don't give a damn about any abuses of human rights as long as they occur in foreign countries.

No, I think the great majority of Americans also do not mind human rights abuses within the borders of America, so long as it happens to people different from them - hence the commonplace acceptance of abuse of blacks, poor, homosexuals, and others.

[Cubby]

The point is, the Abu Grhaib scandal & Bush election victory proves Americans don't give a damn about any abuses of human rights as long as they occur in foreign countries.

No, I think the great majority of Americans also do not mind human rights abuses within the borders of America, so long as it happens to people different from them - hence the commonplace acceptance of abuse of blacks, poor, homosexuals, and others.

You're right. But as someone who lives in the Tri-State New York area, I have to admit that while I'm a liberal, I've always supported the NYPD. People always accuse the police of discrimination, but I'm more worried about what the Government okays as far as torture and what we can't see down there at "Gitmo".

[The Duke]

opebo,

You say an absence of abuse reports only exist where the media is present.  This makes your calim self justifying, like, I dare to say it, when someone says God exists because you can't prove he doesn't.  If you only charge a tree falls when no one is around to hear it, you can't expect anyone to take you seriously.

Pym Fortun,

The difference with conservatives who believed the people released from Soviet Gulags is that those people were not terrorists.  As I said before, even Amnesty International does not dispute the charges against these people.  They are universally recognized as terrorists.  However, those released from the Gulags who recieved media attention were authors and activists.  There is a huge difference in their credibility.

[opebo]

opebo,

You say an absence of abuse reports only exist where the media is present.  This makes your calim self justifying, like, I dare to say it, when someone says God exists because you can't prove he doesn't.  If you only charge a tree falls when no one is around to hear it, you can't expect anyone to take you seriously.

No, I was saying that if the State is not watched, it tortures.  What on earth do you think they're doing in there?  The only way to prevent the State from torturing is to have third parties observing.  The can do whatever they like in there.

In other words I'm saying that imprisoning people in secret, without oversight of third parties such as the press and human rights organizatoins, is in itself a human rights abuse.

[??????????]

I believe it was the report that was labeled absurd, not human rights. Actually, I know so, because I watched the press conference—but thanks for lying, as you typically do. Or are you just confused?

I further believe that this is a group that relies on the words of former detainees as some kind of objective source of information.

That brilliant, objective report - you know, based on what former detainees trained to lie about this stuff had to say - accused America of torture.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," was their conclusion.

That's a joke, their report was a joke, and if they're not jokes, then they're having a great time laughing at their report right about now.

By the way, please learn how to spell Amnesty.

Don't be a hypocrite. I bet 20 years ago if people escaped Soviet Gulags you'd believe every word of their testimony. Of course Guantanamo abuses human rights.

Why should animal terrorists recieve human "rights" even if their is such a thing as human "rights"?

[2952-0-0]

I believe it was the report that was labeled absurd, not human rights. Actually, I know so, because I watched the press conference—but thanks for lying, as you typically do. Or are you just confused?

I further believe that this is a group that relies on the words of former detainees as some kind of objective source of information.

That brilliant, objective report - you know, based on what former detainees trained to lie about this stuff had to say - accused America of torture.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," was their conclusion.

That's a joke, their report was a joke, and if they're not jokes, then they're having a great time laughing at their report right about now.

By the way, please learn how to spell Amnesty.

Don't be a hypocrite. I bet 20 years ago if people escaped Soviet Gulags you'd believe every word of their testimony. Of course Guantanamo abuses human rights.

Why should animal terrorists recieve human "rights" even if their is such a thing as human "rights"?

How do you know that they are terrorists? You haven't even charged them.

[opebo]

Why should animal terrorists recieve human "rights" even if their is such a thing as human "rights"?

Oversight of the State is for our sake, not theirs, StatesRights.  They'll be disappearing and torturing you or I next.

[??????????]

I believe it was the report that was labeled absurd, not human rights. Actually, I know so, because I watched the press conference—but thanks for lying, as you typically do. Or are you just confused?

I further believe that this is a group that relies on the words of former detainees as some kind of objective source of information.

That brilliant, objective report - you know, based on what former detainees trained to lie about this stuff had to say - accused America of torture.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," was their conclusion.

That's a joke, their report was a joke, and if they're not jokes, then they're having a great time laughing at their report right about now.

By the way, please learn how to spell Amnesty.

Don't be a hypocrite. I bet 20 years ago if people escaped Soviet Gulags you'd believe every word of their testimony. Of course Guantanamo abuses human rights.

Why should animal terrorists recieve human "rights" even if their is such a thing as human "rights"?

How do you know that they are terrorists? You haven't even charged them.

Ok, they were captured in combat..fighting US troops. Obviously they are thugs, murderers or terrorists. I don't understand why liberals can't make simple calculations in their heads.

[opebo]

Ok, they were captured in combat..fighting US troops. Obviously they are thugs, murderers or terrorists. I don't understand why liberals can't make simple calculations in their heads.

No, they aren't 'thugs, murderers, or terrorists', any more than the American invaders are.  They're just the enemy soldiers.  There is no need for all this judgemental talk and double standards.