was killing police officers in apartheid South Africa justified?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course. Conservatives whine that the ANC did this, but what was wrong? The cops job was to enforce apartheid. There is absolutely no difference between this and killing SS officers in Germany or occupied France.

[Richard]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So the French Resistance was wrong for killing SS officers? Or the Italian freedom fighters who killed Mussolini who no doubt also killed some of his blackshirts?

[Richard]

So the French Resistance was wrong for killing SS officers? Or the Italian freedom fighters who killed Mussolini who no doubt also killed some of his blackshirts?

I believe there was a declaration of war.  In such a case, the SS killing French for rising up, or the French killing the SS officers is justified.

If you believe that blacks were justified in killing police officers, you should also believe it was justified for police officers to kill blacks, otherwise you're a hypocrite (but what is new?  you never make sense)

[Jake]

They were wrong no matter if you support it or not. If you say it wasn't wrong, then it obviously wouldn't have been wrong for the police to torture and murder anyone who supported the ANC.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So the French Resistance was wrong for killing SS officers? Or the Italian freedom fighters who killed Mussolini who no doubt also killed some of his blackshirts?

I believe there was a declaration of war.  In such a case, the SS killing French for rising up, or the French killing the SS officers is justified.

If you believe that blacks were justified in killing police officers, you should also believe it was justified for police officers to kill blacks, otherwise you're a hypocrite (but what is new?  you never make sense)

no the blacks were defending themselves against the police who were oppressing them through the apartheid system. If someone enforced apartheid, they wouldn't get one tear from me no matter what happened to them.

[Jake]

Again you prove yourself hypocritical. Nice

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

By your logic the SS were fine killing Jews because the Jews attacked them in the Warsaw Uprising. The government started the problem by imposing apartheid. Attacking the government is simply self-defense.

[Jake]

If you were an SS soldier sent into a city that was actively trying to kill you, you certainly would slaughter the Jews also.

[Richard]

no the blacks were defending themselves against the police who were oppressing them through the apartheid system.

The police were regular people like you and me.  They didn't oppress anyone and certainly didn't enforce apartheid.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

then who did enforce apartheid? and who killed all those people at Soweto and Sharpesville?

[Richard]

then who did enforce apartheid?

It wasn't enforced.  It was a way of life.  A black person wouldn't dream of going to a white restaurant, just like a white person wouldn't dream of going to a black restaurant.  And if they did, they would be kicked out and that would be the end of it.

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The police we called in to qualm a riot.  They were destroying many innocent people's shops, stores, buildings, and homes.  Innocent black people's homes and stores, not white people's.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

then who did enforce apartheid?

It wasn't enforced.  It was a way of life.  A black person wouldn't dream of going to a white restaurant, just like a white person wouldn't dream of going to a black restaurant.  And if they did, they would be kicked out and that would be the end of it.

so who kicked them out? And then how could de Klerk abolish it if it wasn't in the law? And what about all those white only areas that blacks needed special passes to go to and the laws that said blacks couldn't hire whites in their businesses, etc.?

The police we called in to qualm a riot.  They were destroying many innocent people's shops, stores, buildings, and homes.  Innocent black people's homes and stores, not white people's.

Yeah, riots can start when police attack peaceful protestors.

I sure trust people who have a police chief who made the following statement:
"The Native mentality does not allow them to gather for a peaceful demonstration. For them to gather means violence."

[Richard]

so who kicked them out?

The owners of the establishment?

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What did de Klerk abolish?  What wasn't law?

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Myths.  All people required passes to pass through certain quarantine zones.  White or black, if you wanted to pass through certain parts of the country (for exable, TB zones), you needed a medical exam to prove that you are not carrying the TB bug to the rest of the country.

Laws that said blacks couldn't hire whites in their businesses?  What?  I never heard of such a thing in R S A.

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That is not how it started.  It was never a peaceful protest.  They were destroying the area around them.

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It is true...

[Beet]

There was already a similiar topic to this. The answer I think we agreed on was, depends on the type of police officer. Traffic cop: No.  Human rights abuser/direct instrument of apartheid: Yes.

[Ebowed]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

I agree.  Killing is never justified, even in the worst of circumstances.  I have a lot of sympathy for those who endured the brutality of South African offers during apartheid, but I don't believe in killing my enemies, no matter how much they deserve it.  That's why I'm against the death penalty, and that's likely why you're against it too, correct?

[Cashcow]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

I agree.  Killing is never justified, even in the worst of circumstances.  I have a lot of sympathy for those who endured the brutality of South African offers during apartheid, but I don't believe in killing my enemies, no matter how much they deserve it.  That's why I'm against the death penalty, and that's likely why you're against it too, correct?

LOL. You're talking to Richius...

[The Dowager Mod]

Yes.

[angus]

Of course. Conservatives whine that the ANC did this, but what was wrong? The cops job was to enforce apartheid. There is absolutely no difference between this and killing SS officers in Germany or occupied France.

...or the american revolution.

actually, by every single *objective* United Nations standard, South Africa is a far worse place than during apartheid.

"freedom's just another word for Nothin' Left to Lose."
  --Janis Joplin

That said, I'd have done the same thing probably.  You can't really hold it against people for killing cops.  I don't.  do you?

[The Dowager Mod]

Anyone see the name change for Preatoria?

[angus]

no, what is it?

there's an interesting article about SA and it's fall from roughly middle HDI to clearly third-world since the fall of the Afrikaner from political power in a recent issue of National Geographic. 

"Be Careful what you wish for" is what itt's called.  I'll see if I can find the particular issue.

[The Dowager Mod]

no, what is it?

there's an interesting article about SA and it's fall from roughly middle HDI to clearly third-world since the fall of the Afrikaner from political power in a recent issue of National Geographic. 

"Be Careful what you wish for" is what itt's called.  I'll see if I can find the particular issue.

Tshwane

[AuH2O]

Most black South Africans now admit Apartheid was actually good for them, and Rhodesia (occupation name Zimbabwe) is begging whites to come back, because 1/3 of their population will starve to death by the end of this year.

Blacks were freer under Apartheid, because while their leader is black, they have no hope of a brighter future. The goal of political association is to live well, not survive and make a point by killing white people.

That's fine though. Now they're oppressed by their own people's incompetence, which is killing more than a nuclear assault would.

[patrick1]

no, what is it?

there's an interesting article about SA and it's fall from roughly middle HDI to clearly third-world since the fall of the Afrikaner from political power in a recent issue of National Geographic. 

"Be Careful what you wish for" is what itt's called.  I'll see if I can find the particular issue.

Article about Jo-burg?  I read that.  I've condoned the killing of an RUC in the past- I supported and support  the black majority.

[patrick1]

Most black South Africans now admit Apartheid was actually good for them, and Rhodesia (occupation name Zimbabwe) is begging whites to come back, because 1/3 of their population will starve to death by the end of this year.

Blacks were freer under Apartheid, because while their leader is black, they have no hope of a brighter future. The goal of political association is to live well, not survive and make a point by killing white people.

That's fine though. Now they're oppressed by their own people's incompetence, which is killing more than a nuclear assault would.

Hi Rudyard.