I read Bernie's plan, and it is an unmitigated embarrassment to honesty

[Matty]

Hillary should absolutely drill him on this and make it THE issue.

There is not a single european nation that funds its healthcare system solely on the backs of "the rich", yet Bernie thinks we can only raise taxes 2% on 99% of americans and at the same time give them healthcare for free whenever they want it? Jesus Christ.

Also, the amount of revenue his plan would raise would be about 950 billion. If you add the current 836 billion, that amounts to 1.8 trillion.......yet our current system costs 3.8 trillion.

So that means that more than half of the current expenditures on healthcare would be unpaid.....and as ezra klein puts it.... explained way by vague notions of efficiency.

It's a bigger piece of sh**t plan than trump's tax plan.  

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

#CrashingAndBerning

(although seriously, when you look at them in detail, almost every plan from candidates of all parties are pretty bad. Luckily this election isn't on policy, just personality, so it's all moot tbh)

[Lief 🗽]

Yup, it's complete and utter nonsense. No wonder Bernie was so embarrassed by it that he released it right before the debate so neither the moderators nor Clinton had time to read it.

[Asian Nazi]

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of universal health care (just like TRUMP), but the Sanders plan, much like the man himself, is ridiculous and idiotic. 

[wolfsblood07]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

[Asian Nazi]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

Good to see one of our resident sociopathic teenage white boys bequeathing his wisdom onto us.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

Good to see one of our resident sociopathic teenage white boys bequeathing his wisdom onto us.

"Ugh, lazy bums who want healthcare from the government. Why can't they just ask their parents for coverage like I do?"

[Cruzcrew]

What a joke. Has he ever been an executive and run a budget like that in his life?

[Trapsy]

Reince Priebus and RNC are just gonna eat this up. I heard Karl Rove already spent like $5M on attacks on Hillary.

[Pyro]

Agreed on one point. His plan should not have a payroll tax. Workers should not lose out on their paycheck while the top income bracket has such an unimaginable amount of stockpiled wealth that everyone could be covered without siphoning money from the poor. But that's an issue I have with most social welfare plans that ignore the bigger problems.

Still, considering Hillary has no answer for healthcare improvement besides inciting fear that Obamacare would be altered under Bernie's plan, she should probably focus on something that makes her look more appealing, not whatever may or may not damage her opponent by moving to the Right.

[Thunderbird is the word]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

Good to see one of our resident sociopathic teenage white boys bequeathing his wisdom onto us.

"Ugh, lazy bums who want healthcare from the government. Why can't they just ask their parents for coverage like I do?"

"Now if you'll excuse me I have a bowl to smoke and some Stefan Molyneux videos on youtube to watch."

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Hillary wanted details on a universal healthcare plan so she could attack them. Her motto is "No, we can't". Here was a very different Hillary 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvRe49qces

[Lief 🗽]

Hillary wanted details on a universal healthcare plan so she could attack them. Her motto is "No, we can't". Here was a very different Hillary 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvRe49qces

Sanders isn't a Democrat. In fact, he's sued the Democratic Party and, unlike Clinton, raised $0 for the party.

Also I like how you have literally zero defense of this dumpster fire of a "plan."

[Ebsy]

Remember when Hillary Clinton attacked Obama in 2008 for his naive belief that the sweeping reforms he promised would go nowhere in Congress, especially with Republicans, and that he was overpromising to the American people?

I don't think Clinton gets enough credit for how right she was then, and how right she is now.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Hillary wanted details on a universal healthcare plan so she could attack them. Her motto is "No, we can't". Here was a very different Hillary 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvRe49qces

Sanders isn't a Democrat. In fact, he's sued the Democratic Party and, unlike Clinton, raised $0 for the party.

Also I like how you have literally zero defense of this dumpster fire of a "plan."

For over a quarter century, Bernie has caucused with the Democrats, supported every Democratic Presidential nominee (even the right wing Clinton '96) and votes like a liberal Democrat. He barely has any maxed out donors, and DWS refused to allow joint fundraisers. And you'd bash this plan no matter what was it in anyways, since you just hate Bernie.

Remember when Hillary Clinton attacked Obama in 2008 for his naive belief that the sweeping reforms he promised would go nowhere in Congress, especially with Republicans, and that he was overpromising to the American people?

I don't think Clinton gets enough credit for how right she was then, and how right she is now.

Hillary's positions in a primary are whatever she can best use to attack her opponent. In 2008, she criticized Obama for not supporting universal healthcare and for supporting too much gun control, and said how she wanted the votes of hard working white people. She had to do a 180 on all of those for 2016. 100% politics, 0% principles.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

So my uninsured family members, who suffer from specific major medical problems for which there are specific remedies for should continue to suffer for a lack of access to medical care?  What good does the "greatest healthcare system in the world" do them?

[Lyin' Steve]

Hillary wanted details on a universal healthcare plan so she could attack them. Her motto is "No, we can't". Here was a very different Hillary 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvRe49qces

Sanders isn't a Democrat. In fact, he's sued the Democratic Party and, unlike Clinton, raised $0 for the party.

Also I like how you have literally zero defense of this dumpster fire of a "plan."

For over a quarter century, Bernie has caucused with the Democrats, supported every Democratic Presidential nominee (even the right wing Clinton '96) and votes like a liberal Democrat. He barely has any maxed out donors, and DWS refused to allow joint fundraisers. And you'd bash this plan no matter what was it in anyways, since you just hate Bernie.

Remember when Hillary Clinton attacked Obama in 2008 for his naive belief that the sweeping reforms he promised would go nowhere in Congress, especially with Republicans, and that he was overpromising to the American people?

I don't think Clinton gets enough credit for how right she was then, and how right she is now.

Hillary's positions in a primary are whatever she can best use to attack her opponent. In 2008, she criticized Obama for not supporting universal healthcare and for supporting too much gun control, and said how she wanted the votes of hard working white people. She had to do a 180 on all of those for 2016. 100% politics, 0% principles.

So again.  You have no response.  You have no defense.  You have no hope of salvaging this train wreck.  All you have is a set of trademark attack lines from the king of negative campaigning, Bernie Sanders, the man whose entire campaign is built on fermenting hatred for successful Americans.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Hillary wanted details on a universal healthcare plan so she could attack them. Her motto is "No, we can't". Here was a very different Hillary 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvRe49qces

Sanders isn't a Democrat. In fact, he's sued the Democratic Party and, unlike Clinton, raised $0 for the party.

Also I like how you have literally zero defense of this dumpster fire of a "plan."

For over a quarter century, Bernie has caucused with the Democrats, supported every Democratic Presidential nominee (even the right wing Clinton '96) and votes like a liberal Democrat. He barely has any maxed out donors, and DWS refused to allow joint fundraisers. And you'd bash this plan no matter what was it in anyways, since you just hate Bernie.

Remember when Hillary Clinton attacked Obama in 2008 for his naive belief that the sweeping reforms he promised would go nowhere in Congress, especially with Republicans, and that he was overpromising to the American people?

I don't think Clinton gets enough credit for how right she was then, and how right she is now.

Hillary's positions in a primary are whatever she can best use to attack her opponent. In 2008, she criticized Obama for not supporting universal healthcare and for supporting too much gun control, and said how she wanted the votes of hard working white people. She had to do a 180 on all of those for 2016. 100% politics, 0% principles.

So again.  You have no response.  You have no defense.  You have no hope of salvaging this train wreck.  All you have is a set of trademark attack lines from the king of negative campaigning, Bernie Sanders, the man whose entire campaign is built on fermenting hatred for successful Americans.

The king of negative campaigning? What a joke.

[YPestis25]

While I generally agree with the way it is payed for, the lack of specifics on how his transition to medicare for all is a bit concerning.

As others on this forum have echoed, I don't understand the aversion to having small middle class tax increases to help pay for a vastly increased social safety net.

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

It appears that Bernie Sanders makes the assumption in his plan that by instituting a single-payer system, healthcare costs will necessarily fall in line with that of other countries with single-payer systems (i.e. about half as much as now).  I don't know the exact figures, but my hunch is that the inefficiencies eliminated by getting insurers out of the picture will not cover the cost differential and thus, for the program's numbers to check out, many people (especially middle-class and up) would have to see a reduction in care options and quality.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

While I generally agree with the way it is payed for, the lack of specifics on how his transition to medicare for all is a bit concerning.

As others on this forum have echoed, I don't understand the aversion to having small middle class tax increases to help pay for a vastly increased social safety net.

I assume the plan will get more detailed. How to pay was quickly added because Hillary was making a big deal of that. If it had been a $2 trillion Iraq war that she voted for that led to the creation of ISIS, she would have never asked how we pay for it.

[The Mikado]

While of course this plan is grossly irresponsible, it's worth pointing out that providing BS pie in the sky dream fantasy plans that have no chance of actually working is just what Presidential candidates do. Bernie's not necessarily even the worst offender in this election.

Clinton absolutely can and should hammer him.

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

I support the free market.  Whatever you want and can afford is what you get.  You pay for only your own health care, or give to charity if you are so inclined.  Health care should never be considered a right.

So my uninsured family members, who suffer from specific major medical problems for which there are specific remedies for should continue to suffer for a lack of access to medical care?  What good does the "greatest healthcare system in the world" do them?

We hear a lot about sick people from politicians but never anything on how or why certain policies work. There are arguments that private ownership is the only way to save people too. Too often people think that unless we do whatever Democrat politicians tell us to do about healthcare, we're doomed to die from not having insurance. These scare tactics work but not on those who understand lying politicians.

[YPestis25]

While I generally agree with the way it is payed for, the lack of specifics on how his transition to medicare for all is a bit concerning.

As others on this forum have echoed, I don't understand the aversion to having small middle class tax increases to help pay for a vastly increased social safety net.

I assume the plan will get more detailed. How to pay was quickly added because Hillary was making a big deal of that. If it had been a $2 trillion Iraq war that she voted for that led to the creation of ISIS, she would have never asked how we pay for it.

That's a red herring. Bringing up Clinton's past mistakes doesn't mean Sanders' current ones are forgiven. We can't keep on acting like Sanders is this perfect candidate, that's not a way to win a primary and hopefully general election. This plan, which I agree with in principle, is flawed. It's incredibly vague on implementation, and the numbers which he uses in his cost estimations for this plan are much more favorable to his proposal than many experts project for this kind of single-payer plan. Whenever our candidate makes a mistake, we shouldn't just bash the opposition, we should demand that he rectify it, in this case with a much more detailed and comprehensive plan.

[NeverAgain]

While I generally agree with the way it is payed for, the lack of specifics on how his transition to medicare for all is a bit concerning.

As others on this forum have echoed, I don't understand the aversion to having small middle class tax increases to help pay for a vastly increased social safety net.

I assume the plan will get more detailed. How to pay was quickly added because Hillary was making a big deal of that. If it had been a $2 trillion Iraq war that she voted for that led to the creation of ISIS, she would have never asked how we pay for it.

That's a red herring. Bringing up Clinton's past mistakes doesn't mean Sanders' current ones are forgiven. We can't keep on acting like Sanders is this perfect candidate, that's not a way to win a primary and hopefully general election. This plan, which I agree with in principle, is flawed. It's incredibly vague on implementation, and the numbers which he uses in his cost estimations for this plan are much more favorable to his proposal than many experts project for this kind of single-payer plan. Whenever our candidate makes a mistake, we shouldn't just bash the opposition, we should demand that he rectify it, in this case with a much more detailed and comprehensive plan.

Boy, this goes in the Good Post Thread.