GOP Manages to Repeal Obamacare-Obama to veto repeal bill

[Antonio the Sixth]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Why filibuster something that has no chance of being enacted. A complete waste of time by any measure

[7,052,770]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Republicans used a technicality to avoid a filibuster, so no worries there.

[Ebsy]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Reconciliation. I imagine it is what they would use to repeal Obamacare if a Republican took the White House.

[ag]

Is it just me, or is repealing Obamacare without at the same time replacing it with something else, just facially highly irresponsible?  Surely the repeal advocates don't want to just have nothing in its place, do they? Politicians who do this sort of thing should be punished. I don't like it.

Oh loook! After 6 years Torie took notice that the Republicans actually don't have an alternative to Obamacare.
Congratulations old chap! Better late than never.

Just another small step in the continuing party reallignment. There is not much space left for Tories in that grand old party of Trump.

[DavidB.]

I do hope a GOP president is not actually going to repeal Obamacare altogether, which would be disastrous. But it is probably not as if there is going to be a GOP president in 2016, so...

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote.  Do you want your party to have less members in the senate?  I'm wondering if you even realize what's going on?

[Ebsy]

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. Do you want your party to have less members in the senate?  I'm wondering if you even realize what's going on?

I decided to examine this claim, and concluded that using the most generous interpretation of it("lost their jobs" meaning either defeated for reelection or succeeded by a member of the other party) I came up with only 13 Senators losing their job. Honestly, though, I'm hesitant to include Evan Bayh or Tom Harkin in that, since either would have likely been reelected, and Max Baucus "lost his job" to become ambassador to China. So now we are down to 10 that could arguably qualify as having lost their jobs, a third of what you originally stated.

[Simfan34]

The GOP should send him an acrostic bill that repeals Obamacare via code, and see if he accidentally signs it.

It's interesting to wonder how "hidden" a message can be in a bill before it ceases to have any enforceable effect.

Legal esotericism?

e: Or what if an aide mixed up documents and accidentally sent this to Obama to sign? Does Obama actually need to physically sign or veto bills, anyway? What is the procedure here?

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. Do you want your party to have less members in the senate?  I'm wondering if you even realize what's going on?

I decided to examine this claim, and concluded that using the most generous interpretation of it("lost their jobs" meaning either defeated for reelection or succeeded by a member of the other party) I came up with only 13 Senators losing their job. Honestly, though, I'm hesitant to include Evan Bayh or Tom Harkin in that, since either would have likely been reelected, and Max Baucus "lost his job" to become ambassador to China. So now we are down to 10 that could arguably qualify as having lost their jobs, a third of what you originally stated.

You can word it as PC as you want but the fact of the matter is that the names mentioned were more prominent names who couldn't afford embarrassing the party with a loss.  2010 wouldn't have been friendly to Bayh.  Baucus was toast even without Obamacare.  I'm surprised you didn't mention Kerry who is the only one I can see overcoming Obamacare but that's only because he's from MA.  Don't tell that to Martha Coakley though.  If it were an acceptable form of legislation with anyone other than Democrats, they'd still be in their offices. Again word it how you wish.

[Ebsy]

You can word it as PC as you want but the fact of the matter is that the names mentioned were more prominent names who couldn't afford embarrassing the party with a loss.  2010 wouldn't have been friendly to Bayh.  Baucus was toast even without Obamacare.  I'm surprised you didn't mention Kerry who is the only one I can see overcoming Obamacare but that's only because he's from MA.  Don't tell that to Martha Coakley though.  If it were an acceptable form of legislation with anyone other than Democrats, they'd still be in their offices. Again word it how you wish.

What I think is incredible is that I called you out on your sh**t and you deflect by saying I'm being PC.

Kerry obviously doesn't count since he was promoted to Secretary of State and was succeeded by a Democrat, Ed Markey.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. 

Found a source for this claim: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/half-of-the-senators-who-voted-for-obamacare-wont-be-part-of-new-senate/article/2555721

But as it outlines, not everything is due to ObamaCare.

Lost reelection (8):

Begich
Pryor
Udall
Hagan
Landrieu
Feingold
Lincoln
Specter

Retired, replaced by a Republican (8):

Rockefeller
Baucus
Johnson
Harkin
Nelson
Dorgan
Bayh
Burris

Retired, initially replaced by republican, seat now held by democrat (1):

Kirk (MA)

Retired, replaced by a Democrat (10):

Webb
Lieberman
Kohl
Akaka
Bingaman
Dodd
Kerry
Kaufman
Conrad
Levin

Died in Office (3):

Byrd
Inouye
Lautenberg

The bottom two categories obviously had nothing to do with ObamaCare. Among the 17 in the Top 3, we have some special cases:

Appointed Senator who never had an intention of running for a formal term: Kirk (MA)
Retired despite being likely to win re-election: Harkin, Dorgan, Bayh
Lost in Primary: Specter

So, that takes it down to 12. I could technically also nix Baucus because he was replaced by a Democrat for a few months after he was appointed as an ambassador, then Daines was elected as the formal replacement in November, largely because the appointed democrat couldn't run due to a plagarism scandal, leaving a gadfly candidate with the nomination. But I'll let that one slide because Baucus announced he wouldn't run for re-election months before the appointment, and wasn't safe for re-election by any means. And a complete, no-holds barred devil's advocate response would result in nixing all the retirements, because none of them were completely hopeless in terms of getting re-elected. That gets us down to 7.

So, nice try, but no. Even being as generous as possible, we only get to 17, not 30.

 

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The GOP should send him an acrostic bill that repeals Obamacare via code, and see if he accidentally signs it.

It's interesting to wonder how "hidden" a message can be in a bill before it ceases to have any enforceable effect.

Legal esotericism?

e: Or what if an aide mixed up documents and accidentally sent this to Obama to sign? Does Obama actually need to physically sign or veto bills, anyway? What is the procedure here?

Yes. Obama himself has to sign or veto it. (If he does nothing, it becomes law on its own after 10 days, unless Congress goes out of session) He is not required to give any reason for his actions, however.

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. 

Found a source for this claim: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/half-of-the-senators-who-voted-for-obamacare-wont-be-part-of-new-senate/article/2555721

But as it outlines, not everything is due to ObamaCare.

Lost reelection (:

Begich
Pryor
Udall
Hagan
Landrieu
Feingold
Lincoln
Specter

Retired, replaced by a Republican (:

Rockefeller
Baucus
Johnson
Harkin
Nelson
Dorgan
Bayh
Burris

Retired, initially replaced by republican, seat now held by democrat (1):

Kirk (MA)

Retired, replaced by a Democrat (10):

Webb
Lieberman
Kohl
Akaka
Bingaman
Dodd
Kerry
Kaufman
Conrad
Levin

Died in Office (3):

Byrd
Inouye
Lautenberg

The bottom two categories obviously had nothing to do with ObamaCare. Among the 17 in the Top 3, we have some special cases:

Appointed Senator who never had an intention of running for a formal term: Kirk (MA)
Retired despite being likely to win re-election: Harkin, Dorgan, Bayh
Lost in Primary: Specter

So, that takes it down to 12. I could technically also nix Baucus because he was replaced by a Democrat for a few months after he was appointed as an ambassador, then Daines was elected as the formal replacement in November, largely because the appointed democrat couldn't run due to a plagarism scandal, leaving a gadfly candidate with the nomination. But I'll let that one slide because Baucus announced he wouldn't run for re-election months before the appointment, and wasn't safe for re-election by any means. And a complete, no-holds barred devil's advocate response would result in nixing all the retirements, because none of them were completely hopeless in terms of getting re-elected. That gets us down to 7.

So, nice try, but no. Even being as generous as possible, we only get to 17, not 30.

 

Yes when things look grim for re-election, politicians seem to suddenly say they're retiring or "want to spend more time with their families."  Of the 30 names mentioned, over half would have been voted out.  Retiring is a way to forfeit in order to save embarrassment.  I wonder why Esby loves politicians so much instead of holding the view that they aren't to be trusted when they speak. 

[Virginiá]

Yes when things look grim for re-election, politicians seem to suddenly say they're retiring or "want to spend more time with their families."  Of the 30 names mentioned, over half would have been voted out.  Retiring is a way to forfeit in order to save embarrassment.  I wonder why Esby loves politicians so much instead of holding the view that they aren't to be trusted when they speak.  

Rockefeller was really old and had already served for 30 years. His resignation sounds normal.
Tim Johnson was also old and had held public offices of various types for over 35 years straight. Once again, pretty reasonable to think he just wanted to retire.
Tom Harkin - Held office for a whopping 40 years. And he is 75+ years old. Again, legitimate retirement.
Max Baucus - Served in Congress for almost 40 years. It's not unreasonable to think he may have not wanted to be a Senator anymore, especially considering how Congress has been since 2011.
Ben Nelson - 74 years old, held one office or another since 1991, so 20+ years. Again, reasonable.
Byron Dorgan, held office(s) for over 40 years and current 73 years old. Reasonable!
Roland Burris held various offices for over 30 years and is now 78. Very reasonable!

The only plausible person on that list is Evan Bayh, who is only 60 but had served for almost 25 years in various public offices. It's not unreasonable to think that maybe he wanted to do other things after all that time. Other than that, all of them had been working in government for many decades and were pretty old at retirement. To say it was a strategic decision is foolish and needs to be backed up to have any chance at helping you here.

Politicians are not machines. These guys had been in government for a long, long time and probably just wanted to spend the rest of their days relaxing or doing something else. So maybe the 'strategic retirement' excuse would have worked in another argument with different politicians, but these guys were pretty ripe for retirement.

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

Yes when things look grim for re-election, politicians seem to suddenly say they're retiring or "want to spend more time with their families."  Of the 30 names mentioned, over half would have been voted out.  Retiring is a way to forfeit in order to save embarrassment.  I wonder why Esby loves politicians so much instead of holding the view that they aren't to be trusted when they speak.  

Rockefeller was really old and had already served for 30 years. His resignation sounds normal.
Tim Johnson was also old and had held public offices of various types for over 35 years straight. Once again, pretty reasonable to think he just wanted to retire.
Tom Harkin - Held office for a whopping 40 years. And he is 75+ years old. Again, legitimate retirement.
Max Baucus - Served in Congress for almost 40 years. It's not unreasonable to think he may have not wanted to be a Senator anymore, especially considering how Congress has been since 2011.
Ben Nelson - 74 years old, held one office or another since 1991, so 20+ years. Again, reasonable.
Byron Dorgan, held office(s) for over 40 years and current 73 years old. Reasonable!
Roland Burris held various offices for over 30 years and is now 78. Very reasonable!

The only plausible person on that list is Evan Bayh, who is only 60 but had served for almost 25 years in various public offices. It's not unreasonable to think that maybe he wanted to do other things after all that time. Other than that, all of them had been working in government for many decades and were pretty old at retirement. To say it was a strategic decision is foolish and needs to be backed up to have any chance at helping you here.

Politicians are not machines. These guys had been in government for a long, long time and probably just wanted to spend the rest of their days relaxing or doing something else. So maybe the 'strategic retirement' excuse would have worked in another argument with different politicians, but these guys were pretty ripe for retirement.

How are you so naive?  Politicians have always been greedy and hungry for more power.  There's just the coincidence that so many wanted to "spend time with family" all of a sudden just months after passing a controversial bill that cost many of them their jobs?  The older politicians are even worse with their filthy devouring for more power.  You must be the first and only person to trust politicians.  You are the reason we need term limits Virginia because it's voters like you who keep dinosaurs like them in power.

[Bojack Horseman]

Let's not forget that Tim Johnson had a stroke too.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

This needs to be done around Halloween time.  Keep it fresh in the voters' minds.

You can pay for it then.

[Virginiá]

How are you so naive?  Politicians have always been greedy and hungry for more power.  There's just the coincidence that so many wanted to "spend time with family" all of a sudden just months after passing a controversial bill that cost many of them their jobs?  The older politicians are even worse with their filthy devouring for more power.  You must be the first and only person to trust politicians.  You are the reason we need term limits Virginia because it's voters like you who keep dinosaurs like them in power.

Actually I am a fan of term limits. But I also believe that after a certain age and so many decades in office, people may not want to do it anymore, whether or not they like the power. Medical problems also become potential issues at the ages these guys retired at, something I highly doubt you ever considered. So I could say it's equally naive of you to think these people wanted, or were even capable of continuing to serve. Given the insane amount of time they were in office and the age they were at retirement, the burden of proof is on you to show re-election was the motivating factor, seeing as its the least reasonable conclusion with those other factors.

You just want their resignations to be all about their re-elections because it would prove you right. After all, you are probably the most biased poster I have seen so far on this forum, so that assumption wouldn't exactly be crazy either.

[Vern]

I looked up how much it would cost for me to get health care through Obama care...325 a month. that isn't very  affordable...

Wut

Yea, that's what I said.

I don't think you understood my incredulity. Exactly how cheap does something have to be to qualify as "affordable" to you?

200 or less. When you are still in school and paying your way. Not to mention other bills you are paying, 325 is a lot of money you don't have. If you are going to force people to get health care then it needs to be at a price people can afford.

[Joe Republic]

I looked up how much it would cost for me to get health care through Obama care...325 a month. that isn't very  affordable...

Wut

Yea, that's what I said.

I don't think you understood my incredulity. Exactly how cheap does something have to be to qualify as "affordable" to you?

I find your incredulity incredulous.  $325 a month is not affordable to quite a lot of people, including myself until maybe two years or so ago.

[Slander and/or Libel]

That $325 a month is including subsidies and everything to which you would be entitled? I'm not going to inquire about your income, but I put in my details, where I live in Maryland, and I got the following results (for the second least expensive silver plan) for the given incomes, for a single person:

$20,000/yr - $84.21/mo
$30,000/yr - $208.96/mo
$40,000/yr - $237.73/mo
$50,000/yr - $237.73/mo

Let's try the same with North Carolina (via Health Sherpa). I put down one person, no spouse, no dependents:

$20,000/yr - $83/mo
$30,000/yr - $208/mo
$40,000/yr - $321/mo
$50,000/yr - $321/mo

The stated quote of $325 a month seems reasonable for that second least expensive silver plan in North Carolina, though there are certainly high deductible plans that cost less than that. I'm not 100% sure what makes North Carolina almost $100 a month more expensive than Maryland for that level of coverage, but there it is.

Anyway, $325 a month is $75 a week over the course of the year. Not nothing, but if you're making past the threshold for subsidies, also not onerous.

[Vern]

That $325 a month is including subsidies and everything to which you would be entitled? I'm not going to inquire about your income, but I put in my details, where I live in Maryland, and I got the following results (for the second least expensive silver plan) for the given incomes, for a single person:

$20,000/yr - $84.21/mo
$30,000/yr - $208.96/mo
$40,000/yr - $237.73/mo
$50,000/yr - $237.73/mo

Let's try the same with North Carolina (via Health Sherpa). I put down one person, no spouse, no dependents:

$20,000/yr - $83/mo
$30,000/yr - $208/mo
$40,000/yr - $321/mo
$50,000/yr - $321/mo

The stated quote of $325 a month seems reasonable for that second least expensive silver plan in North Carolina, though there are certainly high deductible plans that cost less than that. I'm not 100% sure what makes North Carolina almost $100 a month more expensive than Maryland for that level of coverage, but there it is.

Anyway, $325 a month is $75 a week over the course of the year. Not nothing, but if you're making past the threshold for subsidies, also not onerous.

Maybe I didn't do things correctly. I will have to try again.