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  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderators: Torie, ON Progressive)
  When did the parties switch platforms?
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Author Topic: When did the parties switch platforms?  (Read 18686 times)
Asian Nazi
d32123
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« on: January 04, 2016, 01:24:25 pm »

So, as we all know, the Democrats used to be the conservatives and the Republicans used to be the liberals.  So when did the parties switch? 
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 01:29:49 pm »
« Edited: January 04, 2016, 01:34:57 pm by RINO Tom »

2010, of course (when the Southern legislatures fell)!

Seriously, though, I know those guys were just DINOs.  When they REALLY switched was the 2000s.  You see, Bill Clinton (a Democrat) talked about an end to the era of big government.  He also like deregulated something or something like that, and he had a Southern accent and won West Virginia (and WV votes Republican now, so that means the Democrats of the '90s were the Republicans of today).  Then, in the 2000s, George W. Bush (a Republican) swept onto the scene, and he expanded government (he was a liberal for this) and also passed No Child Left Behind.  Plus the debt.  Democrats attacked him for this (making them the conservatives of that time period).
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Virginiá
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2016, 02:55:54 pm »

2010, of course (when the Southern legislatures fell)!

Seriously, though, I know those guys were just DINOs.  When they REALLY switched was the 2000s.  You see, Bill Clinton (a Democrat) talked about an end to the era of big government.  He also like deregulated something or something like that, and he had a Southern accent and won West Virginia (and WV votes Republican now, so that means the Democrats of the '90s were the Republicans of today).  Then, in the 2000s, George W. Bush (a Republican) swept onto the scene, and he expanded government (he was a liberal for this) and also passed No Child Left Behind.  Plus the debt.  Democrats attacked him for this (making them the conservatives of that time period).

For Republicans/the South, couldn't you say the seed was planted in 1964? Goldwater lost, but many Southern states and whites began voting Republican at the presidential level after that. You could see the Democratic stranglehold on Congressional offices cracking after as well, albeit at a slow pace. It took quite awhile for this to trickle down to state offices, though. Likewise, around 1988/1992 many traditional Republican states in the North switched as well (at the presidential level, with state offices following in the decade(s) after).

Though I am only talking about party voting patterns and not the ideological components of this change.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2016, 03:06:08 pm »

2010, of course (when the Southern legislatures fell)!

Seriously, though, I know those guys were just DINOs.  When they REALLY switched was the 2000s.  You see, Bill Clinton (a Democrat) talked about an end to the era of big government.  He also like deregulated something or something like that, and he had a Southern accent and won West Virginia (and WV votes Republican now, so that means the Democrats of the '90s were the Republicans of today).  Then, in the 2000s, George W. Bush (a Republican) swept onto the scene, and he expanded government (he was a liberal for this) and also passed No Child Left Behind.  Plus the debt.  Democrats attacked him for this (making them the conservatives of that time period).

For Republicans/the South, couldn't you say the seed was planted in 1964? Goldwater lost, but many Southern states and whites began voting Republican at the presidential level after that. You could see the Democratic stranglehold on Congressional offices cracking after as well, albeit at a slow pace. It took quite awhile for this to trickle down to state offices, though. Likewise, around 1988/1992 many traditional Republican states in the North switched as well (at the presidential level, with state offices following in the decade(s) after).

Though I am only talking about party voting patterns and not the ideological components of this change.

Forgetting for a second that RINO's post was 100% sarcastic and hilarious, Republicans had been winning some races before 1964 in the areas with the most Northern transplants (who brought their fiscally conservative votes with them), mostly in "the New South."  All 1964/1965 did was show Southern Whites that they now had to pick between two (at least on paper) pro-civil rights parties.  Wealthier Southerners started voting Republican first and then other Southern Whites followed as the national Democratic Party became less reliant on keeping the South solid and therefore became more openly culturally liberal.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 12:53:31 am »

The Democratic Party was the catch-all party before the mid-1960s split between agrarian reactionaries and racist populists (the latter rather liberal on government spending). The North and West had liberal and conservative wings in both parties.

Signs of the weakening of the Democratic Party began as Strom Thurmond split a third Party in a protest against the baby steps of Harry S. Truman on racial equity as early as 1948.

In the 1960s, Democrats sought to win the votes of Southern blacks But such built an unwieldy coalition of people with opposite purposes in politics. Unwieldy coalitions break. Southern whites slowly drifted R.

Almost the only liberals in the South are now blacks. Thus places like Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis, and New Orleans are very liberal -- as liberal as Northern cities -- but not large enough to offset the rest of the states.

Another aspect of the switch is that Northern suburbs, which used to be bastions of conservatism when they still had rural qualities when newly built, became liberal as they became more urban than rural. Suburbs of New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago are now old enough that one must be old (60 or older) to remember them as attempts to bring some rural character to the fringes of great cities. The original infrastructure is getting old and has huge costs of repair or replacement.  The original lanes suited to thinly-packed tract houses now must often be widened (at much cost) to accommodate the densely-packed apartments that have even more cars per square mile. The older suburbs of places like St. Louis are getting legitimately urban, and the vote changes to match that reality. The newer suburbs of Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Phoenix (Phoenix isn't, strictly speaking, "Southern", but its suburbs are very conservative)   have no such problems -- and they remain bastions of political and economic conservatism. Southfield, Michigan is very different from Plano, Texas. But give time and places like Scottsdale, Arizona and Marietta, Georgia will become about as liberal as Southfield, Michigan -- at which time the game is up for the GOP coalition that it now has.

   
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 01:11:29 am »
« Edited: January 05, 2016, 07:41:26 am by pbrower2a »

I can't show this map often enough for my liking. But here we go:

I here contrast Dwight Eisenhower to Barack Obama. Ike won Mormon country and the High Plains. But just think -- Ike won everything in the North and West, winning two states together (Massachusetts and Minnesota) that Republicans have never won together -- twice. In 2012, although winning a respectable 332 electoral votes, did not win a single state that Ike did not win twice.

(Sure, there will always be a significant overlay of any winner over the landslides of FDR in 1936, LBJ in 1964, Nixon in 1972, and Reagan in 1984 -- but the Obama wins make more impressive overlays against those of Eisenhower) because Ike and Obama both won the single states that Nixon and Reagan lost in 49-state landslides and the two tiny states that FDR lost in 1936.   




 
gray -- did not vote in 1952 or 1956
white -- Eisenhower twice, Obama twice
deep blue -- Republican all four elections
light blue -- Republican all but 2012 (I assume that greater Omaha went for Ike twice)
light green -- Eisenhower once, Stevenson once, Obama never
dark green -- Stevenson twice, Obama never
pink -- Stevenson twice, Obama once

No state voted Democratic all four times, so no state is in deep red.  
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Ebsy
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 01:22:04 am »

That's actually fascinating. And you are right about the older suburbs drifting left, especially in St. Louis.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 03:27:44 am »
« Edited: January 05, 2016, 03:30:00 am by MohamedChalid »

Depends on the state/region. In the 1940s, guys like Dewey, Willkie or Warren were a lot more liberal than Southern Democrats (they were pretty much racists until the late 1960s) while guys like Bob Taft or John Bricker had almost nothing in common with progressives like FDR or Truman.

But it's really fascinating process. I always wondered, why the liberal wings of both parties didn't unify to a Progressive Party and the conservatives form a Conservative Party.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 11:21:02 am »
« Edited: January 05, 2016, 11:24:02 am by Rockefeller GOP »

Depends on the state/region. In the 1940s, guys like Dewey, Willkie or Warren were a lot more liberal than Southern Democrats (they were pretty much racists until the late 1960s) while guys like Bob Taft or John Bricker had almost nothing in common with progressives like FDR or Truman.

But it's really fascinating process. I always wondered, why the liberal wings of both parties didn't unify to a Progressive Party and the conservatives form a Conservative Party.

You keep saying "they were pretty much racists" as if that is a disqualifier from also holding several liberal positions, and it's not.

Also pretty sure this thread was sarcastic response to yours about VT and ME.
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When Tables Deserve To Die
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 01:18:10 pm »

It was a gradual thing from the 1960's to the 1980's. Since then it has only been further.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 01:32:17 pm »

On Economics- GOP has always been more right wing
Foreign Policy- They were about the same until the 1970s when the GOP became more hawkish
Social Policy- Gradual from truman to lbj

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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 01:43:54 pm »

It was a gradual thing from the 1960's to the 1980's. Since then it has only been further.

So you're actually prepared to argue the GOP of the 1930s was to the right of the Democratic Party during that same time frame? Because you'd be like factually wrong.

Okay, Jesus, let's just answer the question in the sarcastic OP that so many people took seriously:

THEY DIDN'T.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 09:17:23 pm »

THEY DID NOT.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 01:48:47 am »

So, as we all know, the Democrats used to be the conservatives and the Republicans used to be the liberals.  So when did the parties switch? 

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or stupidity.
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National Progressive
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 02:40:52 am »

So, as we all know, the Democrats used to be the conservatives and the Republicans used to be the liberals.  So when did the parties switch? 

when Jesse Helms cummed in your mom's anus
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hopper
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2016, 04:42:27 pm »

2010, of course (when the Southern legislatures fell)!

Seriously, though, I know those guys were just DINOs.  When they REALLY switched was the 2000s.  You see, Bill Clinton (a Democrat) talked about an end to the era of big government.  He also like deregulated something or something like that, and he had a Southern accent and won West Virginia (and WV votes Republican now, so that means the Democrats of the '90s were the Republicans of today).  Then, in the 2000s, George W. Bush (a Republican) swept onto the scene, and he expanded government (he was a liberal for this) and also passed No Child Left Behind.  Plus the debt.  Democrats attacked him for this (making them the conservatives of that time period).
Well fiscal conservatives but definitely not Social Conservatives.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2016, 05:15:10 pm »

It was a gradual thing from the 1960's to the 1980's. Since then it has only been further.

So you're actually prepared to argue the GOP of the 1930s was to the right of the Democratic Party during that same time frame? Because you'd be like factually wrong.

Okay, Jesus, let's just answer the question in the sarcastic OP that so many people took seriously:

THEY DIDN'T.

The GOP of the 1930s was clearly more right wing then the Democrats
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2016, 05:39:42 pm »

Never.  Their platforms may have changed some over the years, but the switch wasn't as radical as liberals like to pretend it was.  That's just an excuse they make to keep repeating the lie that the racist Democrats joined the GOP after Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act.
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tara gilesbie
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2016, 05:49:18 pm »

Never.  Their platforms may have changed some over the years, but the switch wasn't as radical as liberals like to pretend it was.  That's just an excuse they make to keep repeating the lie that the racist Democrats joined the GOP after Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act.

Mississippi:

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&fips=28&off=0&elect=0&f=0

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1964&fips=28&f=0&off=0&elect=0

Alabama:

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&fips=1&off=0&elect=0&f=0

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1964&fips=1&off=0&elect=0&f=0

Georgia:

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&off=0&elect=0&fips=13&f=0

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1964&fips=13&off=0&elect=0&f=0

South Carolina:

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&fips=45&off=0&elect=0&f=0

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&fips=45&off=0&elect=0&f=0

Louisiana:

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1960&fips=22&off=0&elect=0&f=0

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1964&fips=22&off=0&elect=0&f=0

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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2016, 05:49:46 pm »

But just think -- Ike won everything in the North and West, winning two states together (Massachusetts and Minnesota) that Republicans have never won together -- twice.
Reagan got Massachusetts twice.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2016, 05:50:18 pm »

Yes, that was ONE election.  After 1964, most of the segregationists went right back to the Democrats.
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hopper
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2016, 05:53:40 pm »

On Economics- GOP has always been more right wing
Foreign Policy- They were about the same until the 1970s when the GOP became more hawkish
Social Policy- Gradual from truman to lbj


The Dems didn't become more isolationist after Vietnam?
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tara gilesbie
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2016, 05:57:23 pm »


Four of these states swung toward Wallace, one for Nixon, zero for Humphrey. All voted for Nixon in 1972. Carter is the only post-CRA Democrat to win any of these voters back, and even then not incredibly.
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hopper
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2016, 05:58:16 pm »
« Edited: January 09, 2016, 06:03:23 pm by hopper »

Never.  Their platforms may have changed some over the years, but the switch wasn't as radical as liberals like to pretend it was.  That's just an excuse they make to keep repeating the lie that the racist Democrats joined the GOP after Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act.
No, I think some Democrats think the GOP was more left wing than the Dems before either 1930 or 1940. I don't think "The Civil Rights Act" has anything to do with their argument. Most Congressional Republicans voted for "The Civil Rights Act" anyway.
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hopper
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2016, 06:00:40 pm »


Four of these states swung toward Wallace, one for Nixon, zero for Humphrey. All voted for Nixon in 1972. Carter is the only post-CRA Democrat to win any of these voters back, and even then not incredibly.
Clinton won Louisiana in 1992 and 1996. Georgia also went to Clinton in 1992 and was close in 1996 although Dole won it.
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