Maybe it's time for normal Republicans to form a third party

[RINO Tom]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

His state has no income tax because of BUSINESS FIRST POLICIES, consequently has the most recessive tax code in the entire country and like most states routinely fails to fund its schools because the previous low tax environment must be preserved . In other words a "fiscal conservative but socially liberal" paradise!

If you want to debate the merits of being right-of-center fiscally, fine.  However, while fiscal and social issues aren't "independent" of each other, they're also not dependent on each other.  Being pro-life has nothing to do with whether or not you think more regulation will help or hurt the economy in the long-run.  I will refrain from using "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" if it bothers some, but people who have some left-of-center social views and right-of-center fiscal views aren't these boogeymen, LOL.  It's a possible product of making up your mind on where you stand on a number of different issues, and it doesn't make you an automatic idiot.

Ok partly it's a semantic thing. "Fiscally right-wing" does not mean anything. See I would take it to mean balanced budgets which is admirable but not really a political position, in the same way that "good schools" is not an idealogy but an aim. Some use the phrase for a bevy of economically right-wing causes like low taxes etc. Which seems like a distortion of the term.

And as for socially liberal ... well most  "socially liberal" causes de celebre I know requires some spending from the government or government action.

So it's partially semantic and partially annoyance at self-appointed wunderkinds.

[Likely Voter]

Deleted some excessive hyperbole and subsequent reactions to said hyperbole...maybe some chill pills all around folks?

[YaBoyNY]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

Oh wow, I realized how weird that sounded. Clarified it.

[RINO Tom]

His state has no income tax because of BUSINESS FIRST POLICIES, consequently has the most recessive tax code in the entire country and like most states routinely fails to fund its schools because the previous low tax environment must be preserved . In other words a "fiscal conservative but socially liberal" paradise!

If you want to debate the merits of being right-of-center fiscally, fine.  However, while fiscal and social issues aren't "independent" of each other, they're also not dependent on each other.  Being pro-life has nothing to do with whether or not you think more regulation will help or hurt the economy in the long-run.  I will refrain from using "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" if it bothers some, but people who have some left-of-center social views and right-of-center fiscal views aren't these boogeymen, LOL.  It's a possible product of making up your mind on where you stand on a number of different issues, and it doesn't make you an automatic idiot.

Ok partly it's a semantic thing. "Fiscally right-wing" does not mean anything. See I would take it to mean balanced budgets which is admirable but not really a political position, in the same way that "good schools" is not an idealogy but an aim. Some use the phrase for a bevy of economically right-wing causes like low taxes etc. Which seems like a distortion of the term.

And as for socially liberal ... well most  "socially liberal" causes de celebre I know requires some spending from the government or government action.

So it's partially semantic and partially annoyance at self-appointed wunderkinds.

I mean, I get where you're coming from, but what do you suggest?  I guess I could say, then, that:

"With some exceptions, I tend to agree with the current Democratic Party's platform on what we have classified as 'social' issues, and, with some exceptions, I tend to agree with the current Republican Party's platform on what we have classified as 'fiscal' issues."

However, I can't type that out every time, so I have more or less accepted what I know everyone means when they use those terms.

[RINO Tom]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

Oh wow, I realized how weird that sounded. Clarified it.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

Oh wow, I realized how weird that sounded. Clarified it.

Sometimes I think Atlas is turning into a cesspool of degeneracy and outrageous shouting matches between people...

[YaBoyNY]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

Oh wow, I realized how weird that sounded. Clarified it.

Sometimes I think Atlas is turning into a cesspool of degeneracy and outrageous shouting matches between people...

Just to people like you.

Republicans like RINO Tom are cool.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down.

Haha ... careful there.

Oh wow, I realized how weird that sounded. Clarified it.

Sometimes I think Atlas is turning into a cesspool of degeneracy and outrageous shouting matches between people...

Just to people like you.

Republicans like RINO Tom are cool.

I'm actually pretty chill I just wanted to troll the board the last 2 days but y'all get so worked up sheesh.

[Asian Nazi]

His state has no income tax because of BUSINESS FIRST POLICIES, consequently has the most recessive tax code in the entire country and like most states routinely fails to fund its schools because the previous low tax environment must be preserved . In other words a "fiscal conservative but socially liberal" paradise!

But yes, this.  My state is what applied "fiscal conservative social liberalism" looks like.  And it's a total disaster for all of the reasons Mr. Krabs mentioned plus more.  The idea that Washington is some progressive utopia is nothing but fantasy.  I guess if you're from some backwater sh**thole like Florida it might look nice, though.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

What's wrong with using the phrase "economic" in place of "fiscal". That seems much easier on the mind than advertising slogan schlock like "fiscal". Heck, you could even use that retrospective shorthand for a wide variety of 19th century philosophers - "I follow Classical Liberal ideals" for instance.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

What's wrong with using the phrase "economic" in place of "fiscal". That seems much easier on the mind than advertising slogan schlock like "fiscal". Heck, you could even use that retrospective shorthand for a wide variety of 19th century philosophers - "I follow Classical Liberal ideals" for instance.

Well maybe you're right there, but to me fiscal sounds better than economic.

[sparkey]

His state has no income tax because of BUSINESS FIRST POLICIES, consequently has the most recessive tax code in the entire country and like most states routinely fails to fund its schools because the previous low tax environment must be preserved . In other words a "fiscal conservative but socially liberal" paradise!

Washington does OK but not great, it's pretty middle-of-the-road: http://freedominthe50states.org/

Ok partly it's a semantic thing. "Fiscally right-wing" does not mean anything. See I would take it to mean balanced budgets which is admirable but not really a political position, in the same way that "good schools" is not an idealogy but an aim. Some use the phrase for a bevy of economically right-wing causes like low taxes etc. Which seems like a distortion of the term.

What definition of "fiscal" are you using in which it doesn't have a lot to do with most economic issues? Fiscally conservative or right-wing doesn't have only to do with deficits, it has to do with absolute tax and spending levels, which are probably the 2 most important economic issues that a government deals with, perhaps alongside monetary and trade issues.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

What "fiscal conservative" conveys to me a Burkean agenda - primarily focused on the right (or lack of) of governments to wrack up large debts. Although it opposes taxes, it opposes the taxes used to dig the government out of a hole. "Fiscal policy" literally means the raising of revenue to meet the subsequent expenditure; and "conservatism" implies merely being cautious (raise contrast to moves that were "economically right-wing" but not "fiscally conservative" like the Bush tax cuts). And some people stretch the definition to an even worse extent, throwing in a whole bevy of economic (European) liberal issues in the bag as well - trade, deregulation etc.

The worse thing about fiscal conservative as a definition is it is an advertising slogan. Nobody is "fiscally liberal" as an idealogical position. That would be like saying conservatives enjoy failing schools and people dying of cancer. It's not a helpful descriptor it is a public menace, and should be swiftly wiped out.

[Asian Nazi]

Basically if you hate poor people, just come out and say it.  Maybe even post your address, too.  Hiding behind nonsensical terms is either a sign of cowardice or stupidity.

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

I wholeheartedly agree that establishment Republicans should be exiled from the party and relegated to third party status.

[sparkey]

What "fiscal conservative" conveys to me a Burkean agenda - primarily focused on the right (or lack of) of governments to wrack up large debts. Although it opposes taxes, it opposes the taxes used to dig the government out of a hole. "Fiscal policy" literally means the raising of revenue to meet the subsequent expenditure; and "conservatism" implies merely being cautious (raise contrast to moves that were "economically right-wing" but not "fiscally conservative" like the Bush tax cuts). And some people stretch the definition to an even worse extent, throwing in a whole bevy of economic (European) liberal issues in the bag as well - trade, deregulation etc.

The worse thing about fiscal conservative as a definition is it is an advertising slogan. Nobody is "fiscally liberal" as an idealogical position. That would be like saying conservatives enjoy failing schools and people dying of cancer. It's not a helpful descriptor it is a public menace, and should be swiftly wiped out.

Your definitions are weird, which is why you're coming to weird conclusions here. Fiscal = financial, and definitely doesn't have only to do with raising revenue to meet expenditure, it has to do with setting the absolute tax and spending rates. I agree that fiscal issues are a subset of economic issues, but being fiscally conservative implies wanting lower absolute tax and spending levels, not just less debt. Everybody seems to use the term that way except for you.

There may be a degree of sloganeering here in that classical liberals want to attract others to the position, and fiscal conservatism can be more appealing than, say, regulatory conservatism. But it can still be true, honest, and helpful to describe oneself as fiscally conservative, and it doesn't denigrate others like in your ridiculous "conservatives enjoy failing schools and people dying of cancer" comparison. It's not our fault that you don't embrace "fiscally liberal." Maybe that's because that position is not all that attractive.

[Pyro]

John B. Anderson 2016?

[YaBoyNY]

Why do so many Republicans want to expel the moderates and forever condemn themselves to a real (not fabricated by democratic wishfuls) permanent minority status?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

What "fiscal conservative" conveys to me a Burkean agenda - primarily focused on the right (or lack of) of governments to wrack up large debts. Although it opposes taxes, it opposes the taxes used to dig the government out of a hole. "Fiscal policy" literally means the raising of revenue to meet the subsequent expenditure; and "conservatism" implies merely being cautious (raise contrast to moves that were "economically right-wing" but not "fiscally conservative" like the Bush tax cuts). And some people stretch the definition to an even worse extent, throwing in a whole bevy of economic (European) liberal issues in the bag as well - trade, deregulation etc.

The worse thing about fiscal conservative as a definition is it is an advertising slogan. Nobody is "fiscally liberal" as an idealogical position. That would be like saying conservatives enjoy failing schools and people dying of cancer. It's not a helpful descriptor it is a public menace, and should be swiftly wiped out.

Your definitions are weird, which is why you're coming to weird conclusions here. Fiscal = financial, and definitely doesn't have only to do with raising revenue to meet expenditure, it has to do with setting the absolute tax and spending rates. I agree that fiscal issues are a subset of economic issues, but being fiscally conservative implies wanting lower absolute tax and spending levels, not just less debt. Everybody seems to use the term that way except for you.

There may be a degree of sloganeering here in that classical liberals want to attract others to the position, and fiscal conservatism can be more appealing than, say, regulatory conservatism. But it can still be true, honest, and helpful to describe oneself as fiscally conservative, and it doesn't denigrate others like in your ridiculous "conservatives enjoy failing schools and people dying of cancer" comparison. It's not our fault that you don't embrace "fiscally liberal." Maybe that's because that position is not all that attractive.

Well no because "fiscal liberal" literally just means "spends a lot more than they should". That could describe a lot of administrations, of both left and right persuasions (unless you want to go down the route that says King Louis XVI was a rabid  left-winger. Spending money or getting debt is not an idealogical position. As I said before, trots and the far-left oppose debt; and right-wingers spend money all the time, doesn't mean they are idelaogical left-wingers.

Maybe the media has foisted this irritating unneeded shorthand on us, but the media are full of morons and are wrong about everything. Here's a good example of the failures of "fiscal conservative" as a descriptor: the Two Bush presidencies. One agreed to raise taxes when he realised he would have to force a deficit otherwise. The other made completely uncosted tax cuts and never bothered to fully accord for them with unpopular cuts. To borrow the "responsible household budget" narrative, in one household the breadwinner took a new job to raise money to pay the mortgage on time; in the other the breadwinner reduced their hours on the clock and never bothered to cut the household credit card debt. And yet under this ridiculous MSM definition the latter spendthrift household is awarded the title of fiscal conservative! Becuse reducing revenue is an economically right-wing activity, and the media's magic redescription of "fiscal conservative" to mean "economically right-wing" forces their hand.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

No

The Tea Party/Freedom Caucus wing (minus Trump) are the normal Republicans. The establishment wing (which I consider Trump one) aren't.

[Figueira]

I wonder if we'll see a decline in sociallyliberalbutfiscallyconservative attitudes now that gay marriage is legalized and most socially liberal causes require government intervention.

[Figueira]

NYMillennial is a troll. Just put him on ignore, guys. He seems to think that anything other than enlightened liberalism is "childish".

Aren't you like 16?

Lay down. It's past your bed time.

Ageist personal attacks are not cool.

[Rockefeller GOP]

No

The Tea Party/Freedom Caucus wing (minus Trump) are the normal Republicans. The establishment wing (which I consider Trump one) aren't.

Says who?  A homophobic LIBERTARIAN from Indiana?  Jesus Christ.

Sorry if my last sentence got your panties in a wad, it's a commonly used expression.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

No

The Tea Party/Freedom Caucus wing (minus Trump) are the normal Republicans. The establishment wing (which I consider Trump one) aren't.

Says who?  A homophobic LIBERTARIAN from Indiana?  Jesus Christ.

Sorry if my last sentence got your panties in a wad, it's a commonly used expression.

I'm from a long time Republican family. I'm not homophobic because that implies some sort of fear. I have gay friends and treat them with the same respect I do anyone else. So no. Your homophobia comment doesn't stick. Yes one can believe as I do that the Bible is correct on marriage and still treat one who disagrees with respect.