British States

[Polkergeist]

Well it is a What-If. We could waive away the Vietnam war so it wouldn't be a problem.

How about this........

In 1936 King Edward VIII doesn't marry Wallis Simpson and stays on the throne. His Nazi sympathies remain and  become an irritant  but not a major threat throughout WWII to the point Churchill puts him under house arrest. But as this is the war this is all kept secret. WWII goes on schedule as in OTL

In Nov '63 JFK misses the assasisns' bullet . He gets re-elected over Goldwater by a wide margin in '64. In '65 JFK de-escalates Vietnam.

In '66 Wilson runs the UK-US union idea by  JFK after being rebuffed by De Gaulle once too rudely over EEC membership. While JFK has a fondness for Britain from back when his dad was ambassador he thinks its crazy talk and sends Harold on his way.

In '67 the news breaks that King Edward VII was a Nazi sympathiser and this discredits the royal family and thus he has to abdicate with no legitimate sucessor. A regent is appointed but this cannot last and in the 20th century royals cannot just be created.

Over the other side if the pond news breaks about JFK's infidelities. This threatens to drag him down to an ignominious end to his political career and stain his brothers as well. So in a big picture plan he invites Harold Wilson back to the White House to discuss his big plan.

British states in '68

Gentlemen start your poking!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'll extrapoliate from the 1966 and 1970 results in the U.K... Wallace is a problem... I have a book about social changes in the U.K from the '30's onwards...time to read...

[Polkergeist]

Did someone say Wallace-Powell in '68 ?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Did someone say Wallace-Powell in '68 ?

Ah... yeeessss... that *is* quite likely...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1968

1st January
Anglia, Mercia, Wessex, Northumbria, Wales, Scotland and Ulster join the United States.
The Labour and Liberal parties merge into the Democratic Party, the Conservative and Ulster Unionist parties merge into the Republican party.

2nd-15th January
M.P's from each state form State Legislatures, elect Governers, and write State Constitutions.
The Governers are:

Northumbria: Harold Wilson, D
Wales: George Thomas, D
Anglia: Edward Heath, R
Mercia: Roy Jenkins, D
Scotland: Alec Douglas-Hume, R*
Wessex: Jeremy Thorpe, D*
Ulster: Terence O'Neill, R
*=elected on split vote

28th January

Irish Taoiseach, Jack Lynch, announces that Ireland will join the United States. This is supported by opposition leader Liam Cosgrave, but bitterly opposed by many in his own Fianna Fial party. Charles Haughey (FF) leads the opposition to the Union.

29 January
The House of Representatives votes to let Ireland join the U.S

30th January
By a margin of 1 vote, the Dail votes to join the US.
The Senate votes to let Ireland join the U.S

1st February
Ireland joins the United States. The Dail reforms itself as the State of Ireland House of Delagates and chooses Jack Lynch as Ireland's first Governer.
Fianna Fial-Lynch, most of Fine Gael and the Labour Party join the Democratic Party, while Fianna Fial-Haughey and the rest of Fine Gael merge into the Republican Party.

---end of part I---

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hey Al,

Is Ireland the entire emerald isle or split into Eire and Ulster? For this exercise it might be wise to remain divided to get four Senate seat instead of two!

It'll remain partitioned as O'Neill wouldn't want to upset his base.

[Emsworth]

Hey Al,

Is Ireland the entire emerald isle or split into Eire and Ulster? For this exercise it might be wise to remain divided to get four Senate seat instead of two!

It'll remain partitioned as O'Neill wouldn't want to upset his base.

What would you do with County Cavan, County Donegal and County Monaghan? They are a part of both Eire and Ulster, but not of Northern Ireland.

Note also that Ireland could be split into the four traditional provinces, Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster. England, unfortunately, does not have such convenient divisions. The only ones that come to mind are based on the Church of England's Provinces, Canterbury (Midlands and South of the Midlands) and York (North of the Midlands).

[Emsworth]

And the state of England will have like twice the EVs of California. Now that's power!

But only two Senators...

Scotland: Alec Douglas-Hume, R*

Isn't that Home?

[Polkergeist]

Meanwhile back across the pond…….

Jan 1968

JFK is riding high in the approval ratings with his previous indiscretions fading behind this momentous uniting of the Atlantic. If only he could run for a third term but alas he is barred. However his brother RFK as Attorney General has been heavily involved in the statehood negotiations with the UK and now is negotiating in Ireland. After consulting with his inner circle they decide that the uniting of the Atlantic is a Kennedy project, which is unfinished business, they therefore urge RFK to run which he after musing over it accepts.

However the RFK campaign is in Jan 1968 is not your usual campaign, as RFK is engaged over the Atlantic in rather historic duties so rather other campaign on his behalf. Effectively he runs on the new Atlantic project and the JFK legacy. In Jan 1968 this is strong and thus scares other prominent Democrats out of the race.  VP Johnson had already decided to retire from politics at the end of this term. Hubert Humphrey had decided to not to run against RFK.  But mid-way through Jan 1968 there emerged another Democratic candidate Texas governor John Connally. He said that he was prompted to run because he believed the Democratic Party had become too liberal.   The battle for the Democratic nomination had been joined.

For the Republicans, Nixon had decided not to run in ’68 as he thought RFK would be too strong. This left the race for the Republican nomination as a battle of the ambitious state Governors Nelson Rockefeller of New York and Ronald Reagan of California. This was also a battle of the two wings of the Republican Party, the liberal/moderate wing for Rocky and the conservative/right wing for the Gipper. They had both declared their interest early and this had led to a long awaited contest in NH in late March.

RFK made his first political speech in Washington on Feb 1 after a patriotic ceremony to commemorate the unfurling of the 58 star flag. In this speech he tied in the themes of his campaign to his brother’s linking of British and Irish statehood with the New Frontier, it earned him brownie points with the press and improved his image with the public, on both counts many had seen him as a head kicker for his brother. In short the speech had given him a presidential aura.

With the admission of the British Isles to the union nations with strong historical connections and trade connection to the UK also became interested in statehood idea. JFK responded with overtures to Canada, Australia and New Zealand, negotiations began with the President sending Hubert Humphrey to Canada, Robert McNamara to Australia and Ted Kennedy to New Zealand.  

End part II

[Polkergeist]

Hey Al,

Is Ireland the entire emerald isle or split into Eire and Ulster? For this exercise it might be wise to remain divided to get four Senate seat instead of two!

It'll remain partitioned as O'Neill wouldn't want to upset his base.

From a previous post it looks as if the "former" UK and Ireland combine for 16 Senators. Canada would nearly match that if each province became a state and might exceed that number depending on how the Yukon and NWT might be considered. How would that sit with the "former" UK and Ireland and how might that play out in Electoral College reform?

Yeah I was thinking that the atlantic provinces become one state.

But for the purposes of this TL we are looking for a Canadian to cover the great white north just like what Al is doing for the British Isles and for that matter we could give different parts of the US to peoplw who are knowlegdable about those areas.

[JohnFKennedy]

Meanwhile back across the pond…….

Jan 1968

JFK is riding high in the approval ratings with his previous indiscretions fading behind this momentous uniting of the Atlantic. If only he could run for a third term but alas he is barred.

Ironically, JFK voted FOR the amendment to limit the President to two terms along with the Republican majority at the time.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Isn't that Home?

I think so...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hey Al,

Is Ireland the entire emerald isle or split into Eire and Ulster? For this exercise it might be wise to remain divided to get four Senate seat instead of two!

It'll remain partitioned as O'Neill wouldn't want to upset his base.

What would you do with County Cavan, County Donegal and County Monaghan? They are a part of both Eire and Ulster, but not of Northern Ireland.

Note also that Ireland could be split into the four traditional provinces, Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster. England, unfortunately, does not have such convenient divisions. The only ones that come to mind are based on the Church of England's Provinces, Canterbury (Midlands and South of the Midlands) and York (North of the Midlands).

Ireland might be split again when (er... if) Haughey gets elected Governer.
I'm not sure what to do with Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan... I'll fiddle something...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hey Al,

Is Ireland the entire emerald isle or split into Eire and Ulster? For this exercise it might be wise to remain divided to get four Senate seat instead of two!

It'll remain partitioned as O'Neill wouldn't want to upset his base.

From a previous post it looks as if the "former" UK and Ireland combine for 16 Senators. Canada would nearly match that if each province became a state and might exceed that number depending on how the Yukon and NWT might be considered. How would that sit with the "former" UK and Ireland and how might that play out in Electoral College reform?

Yeah I was thinking that the atlantic provinces become one state.

But for the purposes of this TL we are looking for a Canadian to cover the great white north just like what Al is doing for the British Isles and for that matter we could give different parts of the US to peoplw who are knowlegdable about those areas.

I'm fairly knowledgeable about Canada... but a bit sketchy with Quebec and Alberta (strange combination...)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ideas for Part Three...

1) Does RFK win the Democrat nomination?
2) Who wins in the GOP dogfight?
3) Will Wilson be chosen as the Democrat VP? (I'm thinking yes, as if RFK wins the primary, then the general and is then shot (he's a Kennedy dammit!) I could then do Wilson's sudden resignation...)
4) When does the Wallace-Powell ticket start?
5) Could someone give me a Scottish Labour politician from the '60's/70's who can knock off Home? This is important.
6) Race riots?
7) The Troubles? Or not?

[Platypus]

Whilst  won't wreck your story (its great, btw) I will muse over hme I think the australian states would vote.

Obviously the Australian Capital teritory would be absolved into New South Wales-what would happen to Canberra though? I think there would need to be three capitals-London, DC and Canberra.

Also, the name....the A part might need to change, How about just the United States?

Anyway, the states, EVs, and how they voted:

Tasmania (3)

Gore: 60%
Bush: 23%
Nader: 17%

Victoria (15)

Gore: 62%
Bush: 31%
Nader: 7%

New South Wales (inc. the ACT) (24)

Gore: 60%
Bush: 33%
Nader: 7%

Queensland (name change, perhaps?) (

Bush: 50%
Gore: 41%
Nader: 9%

South Australia (4)

Bush: 49%
Gore: 47%
Nader: 4%

Western Australia (5)

Gore: 43%
Bush: 42%
Nader: 15%

(It would do well with Nader not b/c it iseftwing, but because it is SO far away from the US, and it would be a vote basically by the anti-americans. in the eastern states,those votes would have gone to Gore. If any no-southerner runs, whatever party, they'd win the australian states.)

This leaves the question-what to do with the Northern Territory? :S

I would suggest integrate it into Queensland, which means that QLD had one more EV.

basically, the evs and figures are estimates. WA and SA might have more EVs, NSW less, etc.

Either way, the US democrats here would be centrist or maybe center right, and the only thing keeping the republucans anywhere near Gore is the fact that the democrats are seen as left-even if they aren't.

Australia is a conservative-ish country, but not nearly as much as the US.

[JohnFKennedy]

Queensland (name change, perhaps?) (

Why would they need to change the name?

Virginia is named after Queen Elizabeth I of England, the virgin Queen of England, I see no reason to change that so why should they change the name of Queensland.

[English]

Here's my guess for UK

Northumbria

Gore: 82%
Bush: 15%
Nader: 3%

Wales

Gore: 86%
Bush: 11%
Nader: 3%

Scotland

Gore: 71%
Bush: 21%
Nader: 8%

Mercia

Gore: 60%
Bush: 36%
Nader: 4%

Anglia

Gore: 50%
Bush: 46%
Nader: 4%

Wessex

Gore: 54%
Bush: 37%
Nader: 9%

Ulster
Gore: 37%
Bush: 60%
Nader: 3%

Londinium
Gore: 75%
Bush: 13%
Nader: 12%
For Canada...

British Colombia

Gore: 52%
Bush: 38%
Nader: 10%

Alberta

Gore: 40%
Bush: 55%
Nader: 5%

Sask

Gore: 52%
Bush: 44%
Nader: 4%

Manitoba

Gore: 56%
Bush: 39%
Nader: 5%

Ontario

Gore: 62%
Bush: 33%
Nader: 5%

Quebec

Gore: 77%
Bush: 20%
Nader: 3%

Newfoundland

Gore: 80%
Bush: 19%
Nader: 1%

PEI

Gore: 54%
Bush: 41%
Nader: 5%

Nova Scotia[\b]

Gore: 63%
Bush: 32%
Nader: 5%

New Brunswick[\b]

Gore: 55%
Bush: 40%
Nader: 5%

Yukon, NWT & Nunavut[\b]

Gore: 61%
Bush: 37%
Nader: 2%

[afleitch]

There ain't a hope in hell of Scotland electing Alec Douglas Home as its Senator/Governor...okay i'll keep him on my list!!! I think its likely that by 1976 at least, we'd see a Brit on one of the major tickets in an attempt to mop up EV's. Here's my list of Scottish Governors, PS, ive iv messed up the dates of re-election ill go back to it, take it as re-election every 2 years. Makes it more fun!

1968 William Ross (D/Lab)
1970 William Ross (D)
1972 William Ross (D)
1974 George Younger (R)
1976 Bruce Millan (D)
1978 George Younger (R)
1980 Donald Dewar (D)
1982 Donald Dewar (D)
1984 Donald Dewar (D)
1988 Malcolm Rifkind (R)
1990 John Smith (D)
1992 John Smith (D) died 1994
1994 Donald Dewar (D)
1996 Alex Salmond (Ind)
1998 Alex Salmond (Ind)
2000 Alistair Darling (D)
2002 Alistair Darling (D)

2004 Race:

Alistair Darling (D)
David McLetchie (R)
Margo McDonald (Ind)
George Galloway (Ind. Anti War)

Despite a challenge from Jim Murphy, Darling remains on the Democratic ticket. His support has been eaten away by the two independent candidates with some polls giving the moderate McLetchie a small lead in a traditionally Democratic state. Kerry is polling 61% here and it looks a safe bet for the Presidential election

Hell, I'd vote for McLetchie in this one!:)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There ain't a hope in hell of Scotland electing Alec Douglas Home as its Senator/Governor...okay i'll keep him on my list!!! I think its likely that by 1976 at least, we'd see a Brit on one of the major tickets in an attempt to mop up EV's. Here's my list of Scottish Governors, PS, ive iv messed up the dates of re-election ill go back to it, take it as re-election every 2 years. Makes it more fun!

1968 William Ross (D/Lab)
1970 William Ross (D)
1972 William Ross (D)
1974 George Younger (R)
1976 Bruce Millan (D)
1978 George Younger (R)
1980 Donald Dewar (D)
1982 Donald Dewar (D)
1984 Donald Dewar (D)
1988 Malcolm Rifkind (R)
1990 John Smith (D)
1992 John Smith (D) died 1994
1994 Donald Dewar (D)
1996 Alex Salmond (Ind)
1998 Alex Salmond (Ind)
2000 Alistair Darling (D)
2002 Alistair Darling (D)

2004 Race:

Alistair Darling (D)
David McLetchie (R)
Margo McDonald (Ind)
George Galloway (Ind. Anti War)

Despite a challenge from Jim Murphy, Darling remains on the Democratic ticket. His support has been eaten away by the two independent candidates with some polls giving the moderate McLetchie a small lead in a traditionally Democratic state. Kerry is polling 61% here and it looks a safe bet for the Presidential election

Hell, I'd vote for McLetchie in this one!:)

I couldn't remember the names of any other Scottish politicians from the '60's... I've assumed that the Labour M.P's split two ways, allowing Home to be chosen as Governer.
He will be defeated in the election though.
This is important (Home is needed in Congress in 1973 (ie: Yom Kippur war) to make anti-semitic remarks a Jewish congressman called Gerald Kaufman).
I'll incorperate the list into the timeline. Thanks

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Part III...

February 3rd 1968

Canadian Prime Minister, Lester B. Pearson, narrowly survives an assaination attempt by Quebec seperatists as he left Parliament Hill at 5 AM.
Pearson had initially been sceptical about the "Atlantic Plan", but changes his mind at some point in hospital.

February 4th 1968

Harold Wilson endorses Robert Kennedy's Presidential bid.
An opinion poll shows over 70% of the Canadian public is now in favour of Union with the United States of the Atlantic.

February 5th 1968

In a televised speech to the House of Commons, Pearson announces that a vote on joining the United States will by held on the February 12th.
The vote has to pass the Federal Parliament aand 2/3rd's of provincial assemblies.
The bulk of the Liberal party is in favour of the Union, the Progressive Conservative party is broadly in favour, the NDP announces that it wishes it's MP's/MLA's to abstain, Social Credit is in favour.
In Quebec, the ruling Union Nationale is strongly opposed to the Union while the opposition Liberals are strongly in favour. The leader of the newly formed Parti Québécois, René Lévesque, claims that an independent Quebec is the only answer... and when pressed by journalists on the possible union with the US, he refuses to comment.

---end of part III---

[Polkergeist]

For the new posters on this thread thanks for your tips

Al if you want to cover Canada as well then you can have Canadian license.

Hughento, you can cover Australia and New Zealand if you'd like. Whenever an election rolls around all you have to do is bring in the results.

I'll post part 4 soon.

[Platypus]

Australia doesn't join until 1989-The stockmarket crash (which was BAD here) becomes even worse, when despite historic precedent, mineral futures fall, along with agriculture, thereby dstroying two of the australian economies four legs. Manufacturing also falls, and many people are laid off. The once highly popular, but now exremely unpopular labor government, under Bob Hawake, has approval rating of under 30% and faces a vote of no confidece. With the the support of rogue labor backbenchers, the conservative Liberal/Country national Coalition suceeds in the motion and the government is disbanded.

During the election campaign, a madman, who has lost his ob as a Truck Driver for BHP, shoots opposition leader John Howard whilst he visits Newcastle, a town on the Northern New South Wales Coast heavily hit by job loss, claiming that he was as bad as Hawke and that the country needed a communist system. Whilst Howard isn't killed, he is paralysed, and becomes a paraplegic. His party and it's coalition partner, howver, sweeps the election, winng 104 seats in the 146 seat parliament. The Australian Democrats win a further 10, with the labor party winning only 29 seats-the rest wre independents.

The Liberal government freezes spending on non-essential services-unemployement benefits, tertiary education, and infrastrcutre, and the economy begins to turn around. however, many of the leftist who voted for him because "anyone was better then hawke" soon realise the error in their decision, when they see the hole left from the lack of services, the state of schools and hospitals, and the potholes in the roads the drive to work, if they are lucky enough to have a job.

With sky-high inflation, 25% unemployement, a huge budget deficit, and a ruined social system, australia is in rvolt...

more to come

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I've done a bit of editing to part III

[Platypus]

Note: I am aware I can't spell unemployment

August 1991

Howard calls an election, because for the first time in 12 months his approval rate has risen above 50%, and he is confident he could win at least a majority of seats.

But during the election campaign, the Australian Democrats, remembering what happened with canada and the UK when they had similar problems, offers the Australian people an amazing alternative-join the United States of America.

This catches a hold ampong the centruists of the nation-those who want both the stable economy AND social welfare policies-and the democrats go from 5% supprt to 20%. The Labor party also incrases, and the election result is:

Labor: 63 seats
*Liberal: 54 seats
*Country National: 12 seats
*=coalition. Coalition: 64 seats
Australian Democrats: 15 seats
Independents: 5 seats

To hold office, a parties needs half of the seats. The wooing of the democats commences.

The Australian Democrats declare in a rowdy press conference full of emotion from both pro-union and pro-independence ampaigners, the Australian Democrats announce they will join with whichever party responds first to their three demands:

1. A referendum to the australian people about leaving the British Monarchy
2. A referendum, at the same time, to the Australian people about joining the United States
3. The appointment of the head of the Democrats, Don Chipp, as Prime Minister.

John Howard was the first to call, offering the first two, and saying that as the minor party, barely bigger then the nationals, they would get the deputy Prime Ministership, and control of foreign affairs-the Democrats disagree.

The, Labor leader paul Keating calls. He offers the first, and says that the second should wait for the result of the first-if the first referendum failed, but the second suceeded, the situation would be a mess. He also offers the deputy prime ministership, and a nuber of ministries.

The Democrats confer, and one week after the election, on the steps of New parliament House, build just days before the stockmarket crash, declare that they will support Labor until the referendum, and depending on the result, will reaffirm their commitment thereafter.

Australia roars. Some in jubilance, some in ager, others in lain old shock. The atmosphere was tense. Would we really give up on the comonwealth of Australia? The land forged throughpeace only 90 years before? the land the soldiers fought for in europe, is asia, and in africa  during both world wars? Would we follow the mother country into the United States?The land that time forgot wasn't being forgotten by the world press. Every journalist america had seemed to fly over to Australia. If Australia joined,  the sun would never set on the US. It would traverse three continents, and become larger then the Soviet union. (I did the figures. Without Australia's 7,686,850 square kilometers, the union of Canada, the US, Uk and Ireland equals 19,663,850 square kilometers; with Australia, it equals 27,350,700 sq km. The soviet union was 22,254,898 square kilometers.)

the first referendum-March, 1992

Should Australia become a republic, using the model below?

(blah blah blah, about the setup of the australian republic, designed to fit perfectly into the US system)

YES: 7, 543, 218
No: 7, 359, 966

YES states: WA, QLD, NSW, VIC, TAS, ACT. NT
NO states: SA

Result: By less then 200,000 votes, Australia chooses to renounce the monarchy (australia was the third last country to do so, now only South Africa and New zealand remain parts of the British Monarchy. The palace is in Wellington )

This allows for the seond referendum:

hould Australia request to join the United States of America and the British Isles?

YES: 6, 312, 957
NO: 8, 590, 227

YES states: NSW, ACT, NT, TAS
NO states: WA, SA, VIC, QLD

However, australia requires not only a majority of votes, but also a majority of states (5 states or four states and both territories) for a result to be conclusive enough so that the question cannot be asked again with in acertain time limit (I think 10 years). This can either mean it passes, or fails dismally. In this referendum, two states and both territories vote yes, and four states vote no, the the result is inconclusive.

The Democrats agree to hold off on a new referendum until after the next elections, in 1994. In the meantime, the economy recoversvery slowly, and social services, along with taxes, rise sharply. The soviet union also splits.

Part three later (If someone could write this from a US perspective....)