How similar are Germany and Austria? How different are they?

[Simfan34]

Not very relevant, but if Bavaria was an independent country, it'd likely be a monarchy. They actually rejected the Grundgesetz initially for this reason (and questions of autonomy)-- the Wittelsbach pretender was immensely popular at the time.

e: Makes you wonder what an 20th century Austrian state with a monarchy would have been called. Kaiserthum is far too bombastic, while Archduchy is underwhelming. There never was a "Kingdom of Austria", though.

[Simfan34]

Yes, having been to Vienna you'd think they controlled a whole lot more than a chunk of Central Europe... and it was same thing in Budapest!









Believe it or not, Buda Castle is actually largely an empty shell stripped of its original neo-Baroque ornament (which is planned to be restored), while the Hofburg is missing an entire unbuilt wing(which some have recently contemplated building). The fact this duplication was not the end of Austrian ostentation (in Vienna there are two large palaces-- the Belvedere and Schwarzenberg--jammed into the same park!) really tells you about the Habsburg frame of mind. One imagines what they would have done had they gotten their hands on a colonial empire...

[Simfan34]

On topic though, it is relevant to remember that the entire Austrian identity was formed by the idea that we are anything but German, that we are somehow different from them. Nations and peoples usually have some sort of defining principle, be it language (Italians, French) or some sort of (long) common history (Belgium, Switzerland...). Austria, in relation to Germany, lacks that, there was nothing really dividing us, so when they started to plant the idea of an Austrian nation and Austrian nationalism into people's head after WWII, they had to start with the only thing that came to their minds - creating an artificial notion that we are not Germans, we are not like them; and which sadly (then conveniently) also heavily included the notion "we are not Nazis", giving Austrians in their mind a cart blanche on denying their part in the crimes of Nazism.

That isn't to say that there are no or were no differences of culture or mindset between Germany and Austria. Largely however, they were artificially created after WWII to forever bury the possibility of a second Anschluss.

Yes, this does sound quite accurate to me. Whether in 1918 or in 1945, it's clear that Austrians would have willingly opted for Anschluss by a wide margin. Nations are funny things...

Oh, and also, I was imagining a post-1945 restoration rather than a post-1918 rump.

[Simfan34]

I personally think the saga of South Tyrol is not quite finished just yet.

[Simfan34]

On topic though, it is relevant to remember that the entire Austrian identity was formed by the idea that we are anything but German, that we are somehow different from them. Nations and peoples usually have some sort of defining principle, be it language (Italians, French) or some sort of (long) common history (Belgium, Switzerland...). Austria, in relation to Germany, lacks that, there was nothing really dividing us, so when they started to plant the idea of an Austrian nation and Austrian nationalism into people's head after WWII, they had to start with the only thing that came to their minds - creating an artificial notion that we are not Germans, we are not like them; and which sadly (then conveniently) also heavily included the notion "we are not Nazis", giving Austrians in their mind a cart blanche on denying their part in the crimes of Nazism.

That isn't to say that there are no or were no differences of culture or mindset between Germany and Austria. Largely however, they were artificially created after WWII to forever bury the possibility of a second Anschluss.

Yes, this does sound quite accurate to me. Whether in 1918 or in 1945, it's clear that Austrians would have willingly opted for Anschluss by a wide margin. Nations are funny things...

Oh, and also, I was imagining a post-1945 restoration rather than a post-1918 rump.

correct me if I'm wrong but I recalls the Allies forcing as part of the post-war settlement that Germany and Austria will not be united.

is there a constitutional barrier to this if one day they do decide to walk that path? 

I don't know if there's anything in the constitution, but that is correct. I highly, highly, doubt it'd ever happen today, anyway. I don't know if you can even find proponents of the idea in the FPÖ these days (a significant portion of the old FPÖ's were ardent supporters of another Anschluss).

[Simfan34]

So what is next? How similar are France and Belgium? How different are they?

If you draw a line down the middle...

If not for Napoleon's defeat Wallonia would probably be part of France. It may still be yet...

[Simfan34]

France produces wine and Belgium produces beer

Northern France produce beer and no wine.

Define "Northern France". Is it merely Picardy and Artois? Champagne is hardly central, much less Southern.

One could admittedly argue, however, that it would be more "logical" for Nord départment to be be in Belgium rather than in France,