So John Kasich is an ex-Catholic

[Simfan34]

Lean HP.

You're one to talk, Simfan, with your weird African voodoo Christianity. Everyone knows Greek Orthodox is best Orthodox.

I'm Catholic... although I do feel a strong cultural affinity towards the Ethiopian Church.

[DC Al Fine]

Pawlenty is still effectively Catholic and converted for his wife.

Kasich is barely religious.

Pretty sure Kasich, like Pawlenty and Rubio, is Catholic convert to Evangelical Christianity. Kasich's famous blow-up with big donors involved him citing religious reasons for pushing through the Obamacare Medicaid expansion.

I'm not sure whether you'd describe it as "evangelical" - he's a member of the ACNA, a group that split off from the Episcopalians as part of the Anglican realignment. Most folks classify them as "evangelical", but I understand the worship service and a lot of the theology isn't all that different from the (very, very) mainline Episcopal Church - mostly they're just called evangelical because they represent a conservative faction splintering over some hot-button social issues.

The media definition of mainline vs. evangelical is terrible. I much prefer the two-axis version I came up with.

[Indy Texas]

Pawlenty is still effectively Catholic and converted for his wife.

Kasich is barely religious.

Pretty sure Kasich, like Pawlenty and Rubio, is Catholic convert to Evangelical Christianity. Kasich's famous blow-up with big donors involved him citing religious reasons for pushing through the Obamacare Medicaid expansion.

I'm not sure whether you'd describe it as "evangelical" - he's a member of the ACNA, a group that split off from the Episcopalians as part of the Anglican realignment. Most folks classify them as "evangelical", but I understand the worship service and a lot of the theology isn't all that different from the (very, very) mainline Episcopal Church - mostly they're just called evangelical because they represent a conservative faction splintering over some hot-button social issues.

The media definition of mainline vs. evangelical is terrible. I much prefer the two-axis version I came up with.

The media thinks non-Catholic Christian who votes Republican == Evangelical Christian.

[TJ in Oregon]

I like giving examples of such people whenever I find out about then (because of the inanity of the talking points that no one ever leaves the Catholic Church because of CULTURE) but would this affect the election in any way? Check out this talk about Tim Pawlenty: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=81383.25

I say no because while Catholic Republicans would care more than most people I don't see that being a deciding factor for anyone in say a Trump vs. Kasich primary. Which isn't going to happen because Kasich is a lot like Pawlenty in other aspects too, that being that he's boring and not the type of person who gets nominated for President.

BRTD, I was severely distraught in about 2011 and then got over it.

This Pawlenty fan boy would never in a trillion years vote for Kasich.

Pawlenty is still effectively Catholic and converted for his wife. Iirc, "Courage to Stand" spoke proudly about the mix of Catholics and Lutherans and the great heritages of Minnesotans.

Kasich is barely religious. Fyi, brtd - his wiki "There's always going to be a part of me that considers myself a Catholic"

I fail to see what about Pawlenty makes him so Catholic. He is, of course, a member of the Church by baptism. That's one aspect of it. The other is whether or not he believes the in the teachings of the Catholic Church and it's obvious he doesn't, or at least doesn't care all that much about them.

As for Kasich, he was raised Catholic, fell away in college, and then had an evangelical-style conversion when his parents died in a car accident. I'm not going to defend him leaving the Church obviously, but his life trajectory isn't like he was raised Catholic, got mad at the Church over something, and then went out and joined a different one grinding an ax the whole way. I do think Kasich is religious and think it means something to him. Listen to him talk! Maybe he is just faking it all, but he's never struck me that way.

[TJ in Oregon]

TJ, who do you feel you need to defend him for leaving the Catholic Church? It isn't 1550, is it? It's 2015... I'm not a Catholic (nor a Christian), so maybe I don't fully understand.

I don't understand the question

I'm not defending him for that. I am a Catholic; how could I defend someone for leaving? I'm just trying to make the point that he ought not be judged too harshly. He's not exactly being antagonistic or anything.

[TJ in Oregon]

TJ, who do you feel you need to defend him for leaving the Catholic Church? It isn't 1550, is it? It's 2015... I'm not a Catholic (nor a Christian), so maybe I don't fully understand.

I don't understand the question

I'm not defending him for that. I am a Catholic; how could I defend someone for leaving? I'm just trying to make the point that he ought not be judged too harshly. He's not exactly being antagonistic or anything.

I think you kind of misunderstood my question. My question, why is leaving the Catholic Church a bad thing?

See, most people use the word "defended" to indicate the person in question has done something wrong.

Leaving the Catholic Church is a bad thing because he's a Christian leaving the Church founded by Christ for a sect started by an English king who wanted a divorce. Episcopalians may have their own version of the story, but I thought the negative there is obvious, no?

Let me put it this way: say you believe that something is true but occasionally difficult to accept. People have been rejecting it for years, but you still think it's right. Clearly if you believe in it, you would think rejecting it is a bad thing personally at least, whether it has political ramifications or not.

[TJ in Oregon]

TJ, who do you feel you need to defend him for leaving the Catholic Church? It isn't 1550, is it? It's 2015... I'm not a Catholic (nor a Christian), so maybe I don't fully understand.

I don't understand the question

I'm not defending him for that. I am a Catholic; how could I defend someone for leaving? I'm just trying to make the point that he ought not be judged too harshly. He's not exactly being antagonistic or anything.

I think you kind of misunderstood my question. My question, why is leaving the Catholic Church a bad thing?

See, most people use the word "defended" to indicate the person in question has done something wrong.

Leaving the Catholic Church is a bad thing because he's a Christian leaving the Church founded by Christ for a sect started by an English king who wanted a divorce. Episcopalians may have their own version of the story, but I thought the negative there is obvious, no?

But in this modern and enlightened age, people should be free to change their religion without being view unfavorably, right?

If it makes you feel better, I've noticed the same thing with other religions, including Protestants.

Of course he should be free to change his religion! I certainly don't want to outlaw it! I will say obviously that I do not think it is a good thing. No one can ever be free from a decision being viewed unfavorably by others in a free society. If we do not have the ability to think something someone does is wrong then we do not have the ability to think very much. He has the right to make the choices he believes to be correct. Others have the right to disagree. That's freedom and critical thinking at work.

[Rockefeller GOP]

Good.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

This Pawlenty fan boy would never in a trillion years vote for Kasich.

Pawlenty is still effectively Catholic and converted for his wife. Iirc, "Courage to Stand" spoke proudly about the mix of Catholics and Lutherans and the great heritages of Minnesotans.

Kasich is barely religious. Fyi, brtd - his wiki "There's always going to be a part of me that considers myself a Catholic"

I fail to see what about Pawlenty makes him so Catholic. He is, of course, a member of the Church by baptism. That's one aspect of it. The other is whether or not he believes the in the teachings of the Catholic Church and it's obvious he doesn't, or at least doesn't care all that much about them.

As for Kasich, he was raised Catholic, fell away in college, and then had an evangelical-style conversion when his parents died in a car accident. I'm not going to defend him leaving the Church obviously, but his life trajectory isn't like he was raised Catholic, got mad at the Church over something, and then went out and joined a different one grinding an ax the whole way. I do think Kasich is religious and think it means something to him. Listen to him talk! Maybe he is just faking it all, but he's never struck me that way.

TPaw still attends Catholic mass somewhat often which is what I would do if forced "out" for family reasons. There are real life aspects that have to be considered in all of this, and it may not be realistic to have two separate churches. So his new church has a lot of cultural Catholic anyway. It's a good compromise. I don't think most people care as much about the intricate doctrines of the faith as you think, but if he was raised Catholic and still participates, I highly doubt he rejects Marian stuff like complete outsiders do, but how are we to know.

As for Kasich - falling away is just as bad as getting mad at the church over something. Honestly worse imo. Why even leave if there is no attachment to another entity or severance with the current one when looking to rejoin? He really has no obvious case. My point was that Pawlenty had logical reason. But whatever - it doesn't matter too much.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Catholics will not support an apostate like Kasich, only a faithful Christian like Donald Trump.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This Pawlenty fan boy would never in a trillion years vote for Kasich.

Pawlenty is still effectively Catholic and converted for his wife. Iirc, "Courage to Stand" spoke proudly about the mix of Catholics and Lutherans and the great heritages of Minnesotans.

Kasich is barely religious. Fyi, brtd - his wiki "There's always going to be a part of me that considers myself a Catholic"

I fail to see what about Pawlenty makes him so Catholic. He is, of course, a member of the Church by baptism. That's one aspect of it. The other is whether or not he believes the in the teachings of the Catholic Church and it's obvious he doesn't, or at least doesn't care all that much about them.

As for Kasich, he was raised Catholic, fell away in college, and then had an evangelical-style conversion when his parents died in a car accident. I'm not going to defend him leaving the Church obviously, but his life trajectory isn't like he was raised Catholic, got mad at the Church over something, and then went out and joined a different one grinding an ax the whole way. I do think Kasich is religious and think it means something to him. Listen to him talk! Maybe he is just faking it all, but he's never struck me that way.

TPaw still attends Catholic mass somewhat often which is what I would do if forced "out" for family reasons. There are real life aspects that have to be considered in all of this, and it may not be realistic to have two separate churches. So his new church has a lot of cultural Catholic anyway. It's a good compromise. I don't think most people care as much about the intricate doctrines of the faith as you think, but if he was raised Catholic and still participates, I highly doubt he rejects Marian stuff like complete outsiders do, but how are we to know.

As for Kasich - falling away is just as bad as getting mad at the church over something. Honestly worse imo. Why even leave if there is no attachment to another entity or severance with the current one when looking to rejoin? He really has no obvious case. My point was that Pawlenty had logical reason. But whatever - it doesn't matter too much.

The church Pawlenty went to when he was Governor (I've been there, for Ingress reasons), is a pretty standard suburban evangelical megachurch. Nothing Catholic about it at all.

[Higgs]

I'm Catholic and this is kinda disappointing but doesn't move Kasich in my list. He's still number two and of course something like this wouldn't affect my vote.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also why would anyone be a Pawlenty fan boy? How on Earth can someone find him exciting or inspiring?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Also why would anyone be a Pawlenty fan boy? How on Earth can someone find him exciting or inspiring?

I rewrote the lyrics to so many songs in his honour! He was a bit backwards on crime, but he was a wonderful alternative to evil Romney. Beautiful family with great values. Cared about the environment a heck of a lot more than Eagle Scout Walker. A rare good establishment type who was right on many issues!

[DavidB.]

Why does this even matter.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Why does this even matter.

BRTD has a fascination with ex-Catholics, especially those who, unlike Kasich, entirely disclaim their Catholic background.

[Indy Texas]

I find it kind of amusing that there are people ITT who are that offended that a politician left their religious sect of choice and have a hard time accepting it but don't want to come across as intolerant.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why does this even matter.

BRTD has a fascination with ex-Catholics, especially those who, unlike Kasich, entirely disclaim their Catholic background.

As I've said before, "cultural Catholicism" isn't really a thing in Minnesota and North Dakota, so hearing people basically that it applies to everyone who was ever brought up Catholic in any way is pretty bizarre and incomprehensible to someone from my area. It's also demonstrably and statistically proven to be quite untrue.

[useful idiot]

Why does this even matter.

BRTD has a fascination with ex-Catholics, especially those who, unlike Kasich, entirely disclaim their Catholic background.

As I've said before, "cultural Catholicism" isn't really a thing in Minnesota and North Dakota, so hearing people basically that it applies to everyone who was ever brought up Catholic in any way is pretty bizarre and incomprehensible to someone from my area. It's also demonstrably and statistically proven to be quite untrue.

I'm going to assume most Catholics in MN/ND have a German background? If so, then their Catholicism isn't tied to their ethnicity the way it is for a lot of Latino's, Italians, Irish, Polish, Filipino, and some other Eastern European groups. I've run into plenty of cultural Catholics in my day, living in Washington State and Virginia. I went to Catholic school and none of the Catholic kids I went to school with are in any way religious, though they almost all still identify as Catholic....