New Mexico - Montana Regional Bill

[Peter]

I open debate on the following legislation, originally proposed by Senator WMS and now sponsored by Senator Sam Spade

The New Mexico - Montana Regional Bill

Clause I

The State of New Mexico shall henceforth be located in the Pacific Region.

Clause II

The State of Montana shall henceforth be located in the Midwest Region.

Clause III

This bill shall take effect following the next Regional election upon approval by the Senate.

[jokerman]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

[Gabu]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

It would seem to me that this amendment would make this bill address two entirely separate matters, which is prohibited under current resolutions, but as I can't do anything at the moment unless I get elected as PPT again, that's up to Peter for now. 

[John Dibble]

Well, I'm no Senator, but

A. Why bother?
B. Where is the Senate granted the power to define the regions?
C. I think this is unconstitutional by Article 1, Section 6, Clause 7 of the Constitution, as this bill forces the regions to cede land.

[Joe Republic]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

If by some miracle it is found to be constitutional, I strongly urge the Senate to kill this amendment.  I won't sit back and watch my region get eaten away by land-hungry Southerners.

[Gabu]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

If by some miracle it is found to be constitutional, I strongly urge the Senate to kill this amendment.  I won't sit back and watch my region get eaten away by land-hungry Southerners.

I believe that, for regions to exchange, take, or give up land, it requires the approval of all governors whose regions are affected as well as the approval of the Senate.  Both governors have approved of the New Mexico - Montana exchange, but given that you're currently the governor of the Mideast, all you have to do to make Cosmo Kramer's amendment not abide by the Constitution is to say "no".

It's mainly for this reason that I say that Cosmo Kramer's amendment would make this bill deal with two entirely different matters.

[jokerman]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

If by some miracle it is found to be constitutional, I strongly urge the Senate to kill this amendment.  I won't sit back and watch my region get eaten away by land-hungry Southerners.

I believe that, for regions to exchange, take, or give up land, it requires the approval of all governors whose regions are affected as well as the approval of the Senate.  Both governors have approved of the New Mexico - Montana exchange, but given that you're currently the governor of the Mideast, all you have to do to make Cosmo Kramer's amendment not abide by the Constitution is to say "no".

Yes, that is what I intended.  I am fufilling the Senate part of the deal by proposing we approve the transfer, not nessicarily we are forcing it.  If it fails, it fails.

[jokerman]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

If by some miracle it is found to be constitutional, I strongly urge the Senate to kill this amendment.  I won't sit back and watch my region get eaten away by land-hungry Southerners.

I am not proposing the Senate force the transfer.  In fact it is required by the constitution that any changes have Senate approval.  I am anxious for the Southeast to have these states so I'm going ahead and proposing those changes. 

[John Dibble]

I propose this amendment.

The following will be added:

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

If by some miracle it is found to be constitutional, I strongly urge the Senate to kill this amendment.  I won't sit back and watch my region get eaten away by land-hungry Southerners.

I am not proposing the Senate force the transfer.  In fact it is required by the constitution that any changes have Senate approval.  I am anxious for the Southeast to have these states so I'm going ahead and proposing those changes. 

I highly doubt you'll be getting those states from another region without giving them something in return.

[MasterJedi]

I suppot Clause I but not Clause II, Montana should still be in the Pacific Region.

[Peter]

I'll try to address some of the issues here:

1. The Senate must consent or give permission for Region changes, and it can give pre-emptive consent also.
2. The Regions involved must themselves agree; The Constitution does not specify how they give this consent, and it is generally left to them to work this out for themselves. Failure to consent scuppers the transfer.
3. The States involved in the transfer may veto their transfer and effectively scupper the transfer.

[Joe Republic]

OK fair enough.  I'll be keeping an eye on this bill, but I'll also let it run its course.

For the record, I'm not going to be bull-headed about this.  I plan to involve the citizens of the affected states in my decision.

[jokerman]

OK fair enough.  I'll be keeping an eye on this bill, but I'll also let it run its course.

For the record, I'm not going to be bull-headed about this.  I plan to involve the citizens of the affected states in my decision.

That's fine.  You must realize though, that in Kentucky, both Ian and Southpark Republican have supported the transfer of Kentucky to the southeast region.  I don't know about Virginia, but the only people who have responded on the matter, AuH20 and A18 have supported it, to the best of my knowledge.  As well, Oklahoma's only resident, BushOklahoma, supports it.

[Joe Republic]

OK fair enough.  I'll be keeping an eye on this bill, but I'll also let it run its course.

For the record, I'm not going to be bull-headed about this.  I plan to involve the citizens of the affected states in my decision.

That's fine.  You must realize though, that in Kentucky, both Ian and Southpark Republican have supported the transfer of Kentucky to the southeast region.  I don't know about Virginia, but the only people who have responded on the matter, AuH20 and A18 have supported it, to the best of my knowledge.  As well, Oklahoma's only resident, BushOklahoma, supports it.

As far as I am actually permitted to do so, I plan to discount Ian's opinion on this, considering he does not have a legitimate interest in the affairs of Kentucky.  I guess the same rule would apply to the people who are actually from Virginia.

In any case, it's all well and good having the citizens of those three states wanting to join the most conservative region - considering they're all Republicans.  What if, about a year down the line, the majority of those states' populations happen to be liberals more inclined to the North?

[jokerman]

OK fair enough.  I'll be keeping an eye on this bill, but I'll also let it run its course.

For the record, I'm not going to be bull-headed about this.  I plan to involve the citizens of the affected states in my decision.

That's fine.  You must realize though, that in Kentucky, both Ian and Southpark Republican have supported the transfer of Kentucky to the southeast region.  I don't know about Virginia, but the only people who have responded on the matter, AuH20 and A18 have supported it, to the best of my knowledge.  As well, Oklahoma's only resident, BushOklahoma, supports it.

As far as I am actually permitted to do so, I plan to discount Ian's opinion on this, considering he does not have a legitimate interest in the affairs of Kentucky.  I guess the same rule would apply to the people who are actually from Virginia.

In any case, it's all well and good having the citizens of those three states wanting to join the most conservative region - considering they're all Republicans.  What if, about a year down the line, the majority of those states' populations happen to be liberals more inclined to the North?

Ian is not conservative.  Neither is BushOklahoma, in particular.

[Sam Spade]

Folks, the law with regards to Regions is laid out in Article IV in the New Constitution.  The method by which a state is transferred is laid out in Section 2 of the New Constitution.

Please read your Constitution before you post here.

http://www.progressnj.com/atlaswiki/index.php/Second_Article_IV

For what it's worth, this New Mexico to Montana trade will have the support of WMS and I assume, the support of True Democrat.

Then if both Regional officials approve, which I think they will, there is nothing to worry about.

[True Democrat]

Folks, the law with regards to Regions is laid out in Article IV in the New Constitution.  The method by which a state is transferred is laid out in Section 2 of the New Constitution.

Please read your Constitution before you post here.

http://www.progressnj.com/atlaswiki/index.php/Second_Article_IV

For what it's worth, this New Mexico to Montana trade will have the support of WMS and I assume, the support of True Democrat.

Then if both Regional officials approve, which I think they will, there is nothing to worry about.

Actually, this switch does not have my approval.

[MasterJedi]

Folks, the law with regards to Regions is laid out in Article IV in the New Constitution.  The method by which a state is transferred is laid out in Section 2 of the New Constitution.

Please read your Constitution before you post here.

http://www.progressnj.com/atlaswiki/index.php/Second_Article_IV

For what it's worth, this New Mexico to Montana trade will have the support of WMS and I assume, the support of True Democrat.

Then if both Regional officials approve, which I think they will, there is nothing to worry about.

Actually, this switch does not have my approval.

What would you rather have then?

[Sam Spade]

Folks, the law with regards to Regions is laid out in Article IV in the New Constitution.  The method by which a state is transferred is laid out in Section 2 of the New Constitution.

Please read your Constitution before you post here.

http://www.progressnj.com/atlaswiki/index.php/Second_Article_IV

For what it's worth, this New Mexico to Montana trade will have the support of WMS and I assume, the support of True Democrat.

Then if both Regional officials approve, which I think they will, there is nothing to worry about.

Actually, this switch does not have my approval.

Didn't know that.  Thanks for clarifying. 

[Sam Spade]

WMS:

Looks like you're going to have to find another state to switch with in this situation.

I think I know True Democrat's reason, but I could always be wrong on that.

[Joe Republic]

So, with the only resident of Montana planning to scupper the transfer outlined in Clause 2, and me planning to scupper the transfer in the proposed Clause 4, is this bill really worth all the trouble?

[jokerman]

So, with the only resident of Montana planning to scupper the transfer outlined in Clause 2, and me planning to scupper the transfer in the proposed Clause 4, is this bill really worth all the trouble?

Probably not.  As well, this was proposed by WMS.  He is no longer a Senator.  Is this bill still valid, anyway?

[Sam Spade]

So, with the only resident of Montana planning to scupper the transfer outlined in Clause 2, and me planning to scupper the transfer in the proposed Clause 4, is this bill really worth all the trouble?

I will continue to push it for my old friend and fellow former Senator WMS, who hates being in the Midwest and wants to be in the Pacific.

If Montana doesn't want to be moved and this involves giving New Mexico to the Pacific without anything in return, I will push it also, for all Midwest Regional officials should understand the concern they will face going against the "Swing Voter from Hell".

Of course, if WMS wants to change his mind and continue his stay in the Midwest, I will respect that also.

I am curious as to what he wants right now, that will govern my actions on this legislation.

[Sam Spade]

So, with the only resident of Montana planning to scupper the transfer outlined in Clause 2, and me planning to scupper the transfer in the proposed Clause 4, is this bill really worth all the trouble?

Probably not.  As well, this was proposed by WMS.  He is no longer a Senator.  Is this bill still valid, anyway?

I am sponsoring this bill for WMS, because of long-standing want of leaving the Midwest.

[Joe Republic]

As far as the existing bill goes (without the proposed amendment), does it seem fair that someone who doesn't actually live in Montana (and therefore doesn't have much of a vested interest in the state's affairs) should decide what happens to another state whose resident does actually live there?