Erasing the Confederacy -How Far Would you Go?

[Yellowhammer]

All of these proposals are hateful and sickening.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

All of these proposals are hateful and sickening.

LOL

[Tartarus Sauce]

All of these proposals are hateful and sickening.

The Confederacy was hateful and sickening.

The only proposal here that’s actually terrible is the one about forbidding the display of the Confederate flag on private property since it’s blatantly unconstitutional.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Kalwejt is talking good sense in this thread, although I'm skittish about 3 and 6. If Lost Causeism still persists in the American consciousness afterwards then it might be time for history textbooks to start referring to the Civil War as the Slavers' Revolt or something along those lines.

[Corbyn is (no longer) the leader of the Labour Party]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

BOO! Low quality troll

[RINO Tom]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

Imagine if, like, I told one of our Israeli Jewish posters that their Israeli heritage isn’t “real.” You might not like the culture and people of the American south, but it is and will always retain a distinctive culture that is separate from the rest of the country.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

Imagine if, like, I told one of our Israeli Jewish posters that their Israeli heritage isn’t “real.” You might not like the culture and people of the American south, but it is and will always retain a distinctive culture that is separate from the rest of the country.

I'm happy to concede this, but there's plenty about the American South worth celebrating that doesn't tie back to the Confederacy, at least not directly. My favorite American author (Flannery O'Connor) is POINTEDLY Southern and her stories often deal with race (often in ways that are, as they say, products of her time) but only one deals with the Confederacy at all.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

Imagine if, like, I told one of our Israeli Jewish posters that their Israeli heritage isn’t “real.” You might not like the culture and people of the American south, but it is and will always retain a distinctive culture that is separate from the rest of the country.

I'm happy to concede this, but there's plenty about the American South worth celebrating that doesn't tie back to the Confederacy, at least not directly. My favorite American author (Flannery O'Connor) is POINTEDLY Southern and her stories often deal with race (often in ways that are, as they say, products of her time) but only one deals with the Confederacy at all.

I don't disagree entirely. I certainly think the Confederate flag shouldn't fly on state/government property, but for better or for worse, the Confederacy is ingrained in the regional culture and the historical narrative.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Let's stop pretending the Confederacy is all there is about the Southern "heritage", or even it's larger part.

And while we can't forget history, but we shouldn't idoize certain events from the past, period.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Let's stop pretending the Confederacy is all there is about the Southern "heritage", or even it's larger part.

And while we can't forget history, but we shouldn't idoize certain events from the past, period.

It is southern heritage, the worst part of its heritage that it should really grow out of idolizing. You don't get to chose your heritage, but you can choose which part of your heritage you're most proud of. The South can do better than the Confederacy.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Kalwejt is talking good sense in this thread, although I'm skittish about 3 and 6. If Lost Causeism still persists in the American consciousness afterwards then it might be time for history textbooks to start referring to the Civil War as the Slavers' Revolt or something along those lines.

Lost Causeism essentially belongs to the category of historical revisionist myths as "stab in the back", "honorable Wehrmacht" and "Hirohito, the innocent bystander". All poison.

All of these proposals are hateful and sickening.

Not nearly as sickening as what the Confederacy fought to defend. If this is the part of your southern heritage you want to be proud of, then I only wish you'll be able to look back and say to yourself "man, that's embarassing".

[Sestak]

1, 5, 2 to an extent, and maybe 4. For 2 it should depend on local and historical context of the particular monument. 3 is major overkill. IDK enough about 4 to answer definitely. 6 is just absurd.

Mostly this. Except I'd also say yes to 4.

3 can be also done in some cases where it's very tasteless (black majority "Jefferson Davis High School" etc. is bad).

6 is dumb.

[RINO Tom]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

Imagine if, like, I told one of our Israeli Jewish posters that their Israeli heritage isn’t “real.” You might not like the culture and people of the American south, but it is and will always retain a distinctive culture that is separate from the rest of the country.

I'm happy to concede this, but there's plenty about the American South worth celebrating that doesn't tie back to the Confederacy, at least not directly. My favorite American author (Flannery O'Connor) is POINTEDLY Southern and her stories often deal with race (often in ways that are, as they say, products of her time) but only one deals with the Confederacy at all.

Exactly my point ... the Confederacy should be divorced from the South, and that is a worthwhile goal to undertake.  The South is frickin' awesome; to say I do "not like the culture and people of the American south" is not true.  Food, music, Southern hospitality, some beautiful geography, many wonderful traditions ... all of it is possible - and much better - without celebrating its darkest hour.

[Senator Incitatus]

Exactly my point ... the Confederacy should be divorced from the South, and that is a worthwhile goal to undertake.  The South is frickin' awesome; to say I do "not like the culture and people of the American south" is not true.  Food, music, Southern hospitality, some beautiful geography, many wonderful traditions ... all of it is possible - and much better - without celebrating its darkest hour.

There's also a huge problem with people celebrating a "Southern heritage" that just happens to be whites-only...

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Absolutely nothing! History and heritage should be embraced, not erased!

It's not really heritage.

Imagine if, like, I told one of our Israeli Jewish posters that their Israeli heritage isn’t “real.” You might not like the culture and people of the American south, but it is and will always retain a distinctive culture that is separate from the rest of the country.

I'm happy to concede this, but there's plenty about the American South worth celebrating that doesn't tie back to the Confederacy, at least not directly. My favorite American author (Flannery O'Connor) is POINTEDLY Southern and her stories often deal with race (often in ways that are, as they say, products of her time) but only one deals with the Confederacy at all.

I don't disagree entirely. I certainly think the Confederate flag shouldn't fly on state/government property, but for better or for worse, the Confederacy is ingrained in the regional culture and the historical narrative.

Yes, but no outsider would be comfortable with Germany celebrating its 1932-1945 “heritage”, or Russia its 1928-1953 “history”. It is as “ingrained” as every other historical myth that undermines public order and individual liberty. And the narrative is one of a mistake by regional elites at the expense of the average white Southerner who suffered in the post-war economy.

[RINO Tom]

Let's stop pretending the Confederacy is all there is about the Southern "heritage", or even it's larger part.

And while we can't forget history, but we shouldn't idoize certain events from the past, period.

We're not pretending anything. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that it isn't true. Southern heritage and culture will always be in the southern states.

Southern heritage is about more than a traitorous and rebellious government that relied on an economic system built on the enslavement of human beings.  You, as a conservative from a non-Southern state, should literally feel zero attachment to the CSA.  Your loyalties should lie with the patriotic Northerners who actually walked the walk on respecting the Constitution and states' rights (Dred Scott, anyone??).

[S019]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

[Yellowhammer]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Let's stop pretending the Confederacy is all there is about the Southern "heritage", or even it's larger part.

And while we can't forget history, but we shouldn't idoize certain events from the past, period.

We're not pretending anything. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that it isn't true. Southern heritage and culture will always be in the southern states.

I don't think you've understood my post.

[RINO Tom]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

Deleted post

You know who REALLY thought the Constitution was trash?

... the Confederates.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

Deleted post

You know who REALLY thought the Constitution was trash?

... the Confederates.

Why did the care so much about the Tenth Amendment then? The Confederates were trying to break away from the tyrannical government in Washington because Washington didn't care about the Constitution including their Tenth Amendment rights.

LOL. Literally nobody argued secession was legal because of the Tenth Amendment in 1861. Most Confederate politicians agreed secession was illegal, they just didn't care, because their right to continue buying and selling human beings was more important to them. You should read the actual secession ordinances published by the Confederate states instead of parroting ahistorical talking points invented decades after the war to justify a failed rebellion.

(Also, LOL at implying Tom is part of the "radical left.")

[RINO Tom]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

Deleted post

You know who REALLY thought the Constitution was trash?

... the Confederates.

Why did the care so much about the Tenth Amendment then? The Confederates were trying to break away from the tyrannical government in Washington because Washington didn't care about the Constitution including their Tenth Amendment rights.

The only people who shlt all over the Tenth Amendment were the completely hypocritical and ideology-less slavery supporters in the South who championed the Dred Scott decision, which was QUITE literally the tyrannical government in Washington ignoring a Northern state's right to treat every man as free on Northern soil.

[OSR stands with Israel]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

Deleted post

You know who REALLY thought the Constitution was trash?

... the Confederates.

Why did the care so much about the Tenth Amendment then? The Confederates were trying to break away from the tyrannical government in Washington because Washington didn't care about the Constitution including their Tenth Amendment rights.

The 10th amendment does not give states the right to secede .  The fact is the confederates are the biggest TRAITORS in our nations history .


If you support the confederacy that means you dislike this nation in my opinion and should never claim to be patriotic ever again . People like Yellowhammer at least have told the truth that they dislike this nation

[RINO Tom]

4,5, and 6, but definitely would consider implementing the other ones

#6 would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Is the 1st amendment an "antiquated piece of trash" just like you think the 2nd amendment is?

Deleted post

You know who REALLY thought the Constitution was trash?

... the Confederates.

Why did the care so much about the Tenth Amendment then? The Confederates were trying to break away from the tyrannical government in Washington because Washington didn't care about the Constitution including their Tenth Amendment rights.

LOL. Literally nobody argued secession was legal because of the Tenth Amendment in 1861. Most Confederate politicians agreed secession was illegal, they just didn't care, because their right to continue buying and selling human beings was more important to them. You should read the actual secession ordinances published by the Confederate states instead of parroting ahistorical talking points invented decades after the war to justify a failed rebellion.

(Also, LOL at implying Tom is part of the "radical left.")

It is a common misconception that the Confederacy is about slavery. That is simply not the case. It's about state rights and reducing the power of the federal government. I do not support slavery, but I don't support massive bureaucratic federal governments either. A confederate system is far more efficient and allows states to be more tailored to the desires of the people of those states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford

Again, the South cried "states' rights" WHEN it could be used to defend slavery and completely ignored the principle when it couldn't.

This second point is uncomfortable for a depressing number of conservatives and even more liberals, too, but the simple fact is that the CSA was borderline communist.  The confiscation of private property, outlaw of political parties and completely centralized government don't exactly jive with Lost Causers' revisionist telling of the story.