Greek Referendum on IMF/Troika deal

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The media care less about the issue here and as it isn't 'our' money at stake are less partisan in their coverage (first time for everything).

[Hydera]

So we are apparently more pro-Troika in Sweden than they are in Germany. Who would have guessed.

Finland:  Centre+TF+KD+SPP+KOK+ Some social democrats. Blame Greek governments.  Left Alliance = Blame Troika, Most Social democrats and Greens make up the "equally" and D/K responses.

Denmark:  Blue bloc+most social democrats blame greek governments, Blame troika = Socialistisk Folkeparti voters. rest of red bloc voters split between "equally" and D/K

Sweden: Those who blame greek government = Alliansen+SD+Some social democrats. Blame Troika are from Left Party, Most social democrats+Greens split between Equally and D/K

Germany: CDU/CSU+AFD+FDP= 51%+some of SDP = Greece to Blame, Those who blame troika are Die Linke voters, Most of SPD + Greens = Equally

GB:  Mostly conservative voters who say greek government to blame. the "equally" voters mostly labour Blame Troika= greens+snp.  D/K 19% = libdem+UKIP voters

France: Mostly Hollande voters who think troika+both are to blame, Mostly sarkozy voters say greek past/present governments, 17% mainly the FN voters who are d/k.

Wow this is easily predictable. The Left and greens blames troika. Centre-left is split. While Centre-right understands unlike them that its mainly greek governments to blame for the crisis.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There is a lot of resentment amongst many smaller countries in to East who had to rapidly liberalise their countries that Greece never had to do anything. Notably Slovakia's foreign minister is looking increasingly likely to veto the next bailout package.

What a political farce. The Euro is such a schizophrenic and poorly implemented Moderate Hero policy that tries to sap to Eurofeds and local nationalists simultaneously, while being an unworkable mess.

[swl]

Indeed these EU countries poorer than Greece should be exempted. Their contribution is negligible anyway.

[Zanas]

What Greece submitted may not be a capitulation. I think it isn't that easy. Tsipras is always playing a few moves ahead. His plan is dependent on concessions on the debt. It is a way of appearing as the "moderate" guy who tried, and send the ball in Germany's camp again. And Germany's starting to be pissed and won't accept anything in terms of restructuring the debt. So the game is still on. Let's see what's next.

[ingemann]

So the Greeks reject an austerity plan of circa 9 billion euros in a referendum, and now a few days after the referendum they may have to swallow an austerity plan of 13 billion euros? Are the Syriza people going to admit that the referendum was a mistake?

This are a article just before the election.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article51304.html

It have a interesting analyse of the Greek government motivation behind how it have acted.

But more interesting, it also give some insight into why the Greek government seem to have completely surrendered:

Any fears of the markets reacting in more than a marginal way to a Grexit are gone. The Greeks strongest card have shown itself to be worthless, and now they can only beg for mercy.

[jaichind]

The ‘Left Platform’ faction of Greece’s ruling Syriza party will vote in favor of govt’s proposals for deal with country’s creditors, Skai TV reports, without saying how it got the information.  Looks like their are folding too, especially when they know that ND and PASOK will vote for it anyway.

[jaichind]

Varoufakis indicated that he will vote for the deal.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This is just sad.

[RogueBeaver]

Parliament overwhelmingly approves it.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

So in the end only KKE and the Nazis voted no, and governmental opposition amounted to nothing more than a few abstentions.

[swl]

So in the end only KKE and the Nazis voted no, and governmental opposition amounted to nothing more than a few abstentions.

In one or two years if the situation is getting worse with no end of the tunnel in sight (and how could the economy get better with more tax raises and budget cuts?), the 60% who voted against austerity will turn to KKE and the Nazis.
And to make a link with the poll above, the creditors' uncompromising attitude will be to blame as much as the previous Greek governments.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask. They never wanted to find a mutually acceptable compromise to keep Greece in the Eurozone. All they wanted is an excuse to kick it out. Whatever Tsipras could have done, it wouldn't have changed their position.

Some countries never learn the lessons from their own history.

[ingemann]

I will suggest a compromise France give up their part of the Greek debt, France can also send more money to Greece on Greek terms, these can be used to buy out less forgiving creditors, this will France the position needed to decide how much Greece need to reform.

[Boston Bread]

So in the end only KKE and the Nazis voted no, and governmental opposition amounted to nothing more than a few abstentions.

I can only imagine how fun negotiations will be in a parliament where GD and KKE have a majority after this government collapses and new elections are held.

[MaxQue]

Well, I understand Germans, they want Nazis in power in Greece, at last, people will stop singling them out for Hitler.

Same for their collaborationist Danish friends.

[RogueBeaver]

German plan is supported by Dutch, Slovenians, Estonians, Slovaks, Finns, Lithuanians. Politico saying Stubb will veto because he doesn't want his own government to collapse.

[ingemann]

Well, I understand Germans, they want Nazis in power in Greece, at last, people will stop singling them out for Hitler.

Same for their collaborationist Danish friends.

We have as much influence on this as you do, of course we do stand to lose money on a Grexit, as we bought Greek bonds in our great solidarity with the Greeks and EZ. Which are why I support a French takeover of the Greek debt, which would make everyone happy. Greece get rid of its debt, Germany don't need to pay again to Greece, France can put its money where it mouth is and we doesn't lose money on a Greek collapse. Everyone are happy, including the bankers who now can see how France will cover every future Greek loans.

[Hydera]

Well, I understand Germans, they want Nazis in power in Greece, at last, people will stop singling them out for Hitler.

Same for their collaborationist Danish friends.

We have as much influence on this as you do, of course we do stand to lose money on a Grexit, as we bought Greek bonds in our great solidarity with the Greeks and EZ. Which are why I support a French takeover of the Greek debt, which would make everyone happy. Greece get rid of its debt, Germany don't need to pay again to Greece, France can put its money where it mouth is and we doesn't lose money on a Greek collapse. Everyone are happy, including the bankers who now can see how France will cover every future Greek loans.

France and Italy need to step up and give their own money to pay for greece. Otherwise stop wasting everybody's time by trying to force the rest of the EZ to pay up for greece when they have their own electorates to answer to.

[Simfan34]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask. They never wanted to find a mutually acceptable compromise to keep Greece in the Eurozone. All they wanted is an excuse to kick it out. Whatever Tsipras could have done, it wouldn't have changed their position.

Some countries never learn the lessons from their own history.

Germans or the Finns?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

So was this tsipras's game plan? Play up to the left and stage a referendum to avoid PASOKifying himself; then propose a fairly austere deal that he knew would be vetoed by Merkel (and others, but of course it works better for PR proposes that the Germans are up held as the villain) no matter what it stipulated?

Probably quite a goood move politically, although obviously shaky economically.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask. They never wanted to find a mutually acceptable compromise to keep Greece in the Eurozone. All they wanted is an excuse to kick it out. Whatever Tsipras could have done, it wouldn't have changed their position.

Some countries never learn the lessons from their own history.

Germans or the Finns?

The Finns, Slovaks and all those other self-righteous pricks are part of the chorus, but it's Germany that leads it. Without Germany leading the way, those countries wouldn't amount to anything.

[ingemann]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask. They never wanted to find a mutually acceptable compromise to keep Greece in the Eurozone. All they wanted is an excuse to kick it out. Whatever Tsipras could have done, it wouldn't have changed their position.

Some countries never learn the lessons from their own history.

Germans or the Finns?

The Finns, Slovaks and all those other self-righteous pricks are part of the chorus, but it's Germany that leads it. Without Germany leading the way, those countries wouldn't amount to anything.

GDP per capita

Greece 21,653
Slovakia 18,454

Yes "self-righteous pricks".

[ag]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask.

Well, at least, you can now discard the idea that the Germans are trying to prevent Greece showing those captive Spaniards and Italians how great the life would be outside the euro.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And there you go, Germans officially dropped the mask. They never wanted to find a mutually acceptable compromise to keep Greece in the Eurozone. All they wanted is an excuse to kick it out. Whatever Tsipras could have done, it wouldn't have changed their position.

Some countries never learn the lessons from their own history.

Germans or the Finns?

The Finns, Slovaks and all those other self-righteous pricks are part of the chorus, but it's Germany that leads it. Without Germany leading the way, those countries wouldn't amount to anything.

GDP per capita

Greece 21,653
Slovakia 18,454

Yes "self-righteous pricks".

I guess they won't be satisfied until Greece's GDP per capita drops below theirs. At the current rate, it should only take a couple years.