Once more, gun control opponents...

[Free Bird]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

You are pretty damn crazy, for starters.

There's a difference between ideology and clinical insanity.

[ag]

And where pray tell do these crimes happen?

Wherever there is an armed guy who decides to use his gun.

Cough cough where people can't defend themselves.

Nobody ever gets killed in a war, I presume.

[ag]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

You are pretty damn crazy, for starters.

There's a difference between ideology and clinical insanity.

But sometimes there is correlation.

[WVdemocrat]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

People who have no criminal history and who pass the proper mental health exams have the right to bear arms. Nobody is saying they don't.

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

[ag]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

 To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

[Free Bird]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

People who have no criminal history and who pass the proper mental health exams have the right to bear arms. Nobody is saying they don't.

Ag seems to be. As I said, I support background check expansions!

[WVdemocrat]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

 To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

^This. This precisely.

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

All guns are designed to kill. But that does not mean everyone that owns one is going to shoot up a preschool.  

[ag]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now!

That is a very strong statement to make about oneself. I would never clame I am sane - how the hell would I know?

And, in any case, you might still need an insanity defense next time you use your gun, you know.

[ag]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

All guns are designed to kill. But that does not mean everyone that owns one is going to shoot up a preschool.  

Not everybody. But quite a few of them will.

[Frodo]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:





That said, there needs to be a mindset change among gun rights advocates, particularly the absolutists who abhor any gun control of any sort.  

[dead0man]

When I started reading this thread I was planning on responding in a serious fashion....but then I finished reading it and realized nobody else was.

[bedstuy]

Freebird.  You're being an completely unreasonable, illogical and you're being an idiot.

Can you just consider the question being posed here?

What is the relationship between availability, price, regulation of guns and gun violence?

It's an empirical question.  

You just assert ipse dixit that the more guns an area has, the safer it is.  There's no data that shows that.  And, it defies common sense.

Here's a scenario, one that I've seen first-hand in the relatively poor black neighborhood where I live.

All of a sudden, a criminal with a gun fires at rival gang member, misses and shoots a bystander through the head.  If the bystander had a gun, it wouldn't make any difference.  If the rival gang member has a gun, it just doubles the chance of a bystander getting shot.  

Those situations abound!  And, let's face it, 16 year old gang members aren't rational actors who sensibly consider the risks of their actions and behave accordingly.  They aren't going to weigh the chance that "a good guy with a gun" will step in and save the day.

[ag]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

People who have no criminal history and who pass the proper mental health exams have the right to bear arms. Nobody is saying they don't.

Ag seems to be. As I said, I support background check expansions!

I am not advocating anything. Definitely not as a matter of government policy. I am just telling you how I feel about people who feel they need to own/carry/use guns in peacetime. You find that personally insulting - well, I can't help this.

[ag]

When I started reading this thread I was planning on responding in a serious fashion....but then I finished reading it and realized nobody else was.

Well, you saw ME posting

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now!

That is a very strong statement to make about oneself. I would never clame I am sane - how the hell would I know?

And, in any case, you might still need an insanity defense next time you use your gun, you know.

And how will I know that my dog won't maul someone? We must ban dogs!

[ag]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now!

That is a very strong statement to make about oneself. I would never clame I am sane - how the hell would I know?

And, in any case, you might still need an insanity defense next time you use your gun, you know.

And how will I know that my dog won't maul someone? We must ban dogs!

I own a cat. You should get a Chihuahua - you will know then.

[WVdemocrat]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:

If you'll notice, the steep decline begins in 1994, when (surprise, surprise) the Assault Weapons Ban was signed into law.

[bedstuy]

Or, more importantly, the Brady Crime Bill went into effect in 1994.

[Free Bird]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:

If you'll notice, the steep decline begins in 1994, when (surprise, surprise) the Assault Weapons Ban was signed into law.

And continues to decline after it ends! I'll be!

[WVdemocrat]

Or, more importantly, the Brady Crime Bill went into effect in 1994.

Ah, yes, I overlooked that.

That, too.

EDIT: And you're right, it is more important. AWB expired in '04. Bad on me.

[Free Bird]

Brady is reasonable

[Ebsy]

Or, more importantly, the Brady Crime Bill went into effect in 1994.

Are you telling me that a liberal gun control law might have actually helped reduce the amount of violent crime in the United States of America? B-but... the NRA says it takes a good guy with a gun to take out a bad guy with a gun!

[WVdemocrat]

This thread has been fun.