Do you find a MILF pastor strange?

[Türkisblau]

I love Church more than most, but even I sometimes find it difficult to stay awake. I don't know how the hell I'd manage with PowerPoint being used, but I guess it's use could be legitimate occasionally(?). Everything else you've described has no possible relation to an actual Church service of any kind and should be a marker that you're not going to Church but some sort of purposeful mockery of religion.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not sure a church that once had a sermon series entitled "Exchanging the Bad News of Religion for the Good News of Jesus Christ" would have a problem making a mockery of religion...

[YaBoyNY]

What sort of weird church do you even go to?

Is this like Christianity for people who think they're too "cool" to be seen as regular religious people like 70% of the rest of the country?

[muon2]

I'm with BRTD on the use of PowerPoint. The last two mainline churches I've attended going back to the early 2000s have used PP during the service. These are churches where the average age in the pews is over 50. PP provides large text for the biblical readings and lyrics to hymns, and the congregation likes that. PP also allows occasional video to be embedded and the pastor likes that.

In the 1960's it was unusual for the pastor to wear a microphone, but by the 1990's it was common. It helped everyone hear the service. Adding visuals on a screen/wall is a natural evolution from the addition of sound system.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What sort of weird church do you even go to?

Is this like Christianity for people who think they're too "cool" to be seen as regular religious people like 70% of the rest of the country?

That's...actually not a terrible description. Though it shouldn't be surprising that hipsters don't want to be like 70% of the country or into something that's mainstream.

[tik 🪀✨]

You guys freaking out about PowerPoint is kind of hilarious. It's not unusual at all. I recall big church conferences where, during worship services, lyrics were displayed via PowerPoint as the band played. This was 15 years ago. During the sermon, major points were bullet pointed and displayed overhead. Videos were used to serve as allegories. This is modern Christianity in America. It's normal for a lot of people. It's very "low church" but, even though I'm not a religious, if you think that's not as good as "high church" based on whatever principles, you're a deluded snob. It's all the same.

[RINO Tom]

MILF seems like way too misogynistic of a term for the ultimate progressive to use.

[Joe Republic]

why is this thread 3 pages long

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm not sure a church that once had a sermon series entitled "Exchanging the Bad News of Religion for the Good News of Jesus Christ" would have a problem making a mockery of religion...

That sort of rhetoric is a major warning sign for certain particularly terrible theological positions (especially hardline and triumphalist variants of supersessionism are the first example that comes to mind), but we knew most of those things about your church anyway so I guess you're not really digging yourself any deeper by bringing it up.

Christianity is inherently and by definition a religion. It's an interaction between humanity and God that takes the form of religious worship. Among no serious scholars of religion is this the least bit controversial.

[Maxwell]

Yes, you are very weird and eccentric and kewl.

Is that what you want?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not sure a church that once had a sermon series entitled "Exchanging the Bad News of Religion for the Good News of Jesus Christ" would have a problem making a mockery of religion...

That sort of rhetoric is a major warning sign for certain particularly terrible theological positions (especially hardline and triumphalist variants of supersessionism are the first example that comes to mind), but we knew most of those things about your church anyway so I guess you're not really digging yourself any deeper by bringing it up.

Christianity is inherently and by definition a religion. It's an interaction between humanity and God that takes the form of religious worship. Among no serious scholars of religion is this the least bit controversial.

I care little about the semantics here, the point made in the series (also in hindsight I think it might've been "Exchanging the Bad News of the Church" instead of "Exchanging the Bad News of Religion"...but the point is pretty much the same) is that all negative things associated with religion and Christianity are not from Jesus or the message of Jesus, and that most things that turn people off to Christianity are like this as well. And this includes not just things like gender oppression, homophobia, and intolerance of dissent but also arbitrary rules imposed on people and legalistic restrictions so many have to deal with. It's actually a very progressive message, which should surprise no one.

Now I had to Google the word "supersessionism", never heard of it before, having done so I'll say this: how obviously liberal/progressive the church is kind of eliminates any concerns of where this type of thing usually follows, I know you'll probably say that being liberal and having bad theology is not mutually exclusive which is certainly true, but there are certain litmus test things (like complimentarianism) that I place far more value on. Also I don't think the supersessionism here is exactly "hardline", more like simply "implied", it's kind of a logical conclusion from someone who isn't a fan of ethnic religion and orthodox theology in regards to Jesus and any church that has no connection to ethnic religion at all is likely to hold that stand point. But it's not like the people are out pamphleting synagogues or proselytizing at Jewish community centers or anything. The position more or less comes out "We're just as willing to accept people from a Jewish background as from a Christian background", which is really just a policy of non-discrimination at the end of the day.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The problem with supersessionism isn't so much its attitude towards Judaism as an ethnoreligion as it is the advancement of a narrative about Christian origins that verges on treating the faith ahistorically, but I get that that's not really the point so I'll shut up about it.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Modern church buildings look modern inside too which is more cool. Like this one that resembles a strip club complete with no overhead lighting, just colored strobes.

Does it still have the poles?

[patrick1]

Talks about gender oppression but unironically uses MILF and objectifies the pastor and women in general. BRTD

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The problem with supersessionism isn't so much its attitude towards Judaism as an ethnoreligion as it is the advancement of a narrative about Christian origins that verges on treating the faith ahistorically, but I get that that's not really the point so I'll shut up about it.

Actually that's something I'm a bit intrigued about, seeing as how it's difficult to square a complete rejection of supersessionism with much of the New Testament, as it's made clear most of the first Christians were Jewish converts and Paul's writings on the Mosaic Law. Unless you want to argue that Jewish converts were only OK for a period of time, but that's something that I have a tough time backing up.

I'll also point out that a total rejection of supersessionism is actually discriminatory, in the same way the LDS church discriminated against blacks until 1978.

Modern church buildings look modern inside too which is more cool. Like this one that resembles a strip club complete with no overhead lighting, just colored strobes.

Does it still have the poles?

That's the only thing missing. Well and a tip rail.

Talks about gender oppression but unironically uses MILF and objectifies the pastor and women in general. BRTD

On my music forums (which obviously are full of progressive SJW types and have basically no ideological diversity whatsoever), people say "MILF" unironically and "objectify" women in bands all the time (plenty of threads about hottest women in them, etc.) And we're talking about the people who set up and go to things like this.

[dead0man]

why is this thread 3 pages long

Because everybody loves making fun of BRTD.  It brings people of different faiths and politics together.  Plus, it's so easy, even the slow can do it.  BRTD, like his glorious leader opedo and that useless update guy, LOVE the attention, even the negative stuff. 

...which makes me think they probably didn't get a lot of attention from mommy when they were little (or perhaps too much from mommy and none from anybody else), but I'm not a psychologist.

[dead0man]

What I've never understand are modern church buildings. What's the point of going to church if the building isn't old as, at the very least, your grandparents?

So how do new buildings come into the rotation?  Should they be built and then not used for 60 years?

[Rockefeller GOP]

The problem with supersessionism isn't so much its attitude towards Judaism as an ethnoreligion as it is the advancement of a narrative about Christian origins that verges on treating the faith ahistorically, but I get that that's not really the point so I'll shut up about it.

Actually that's something I'm a bit intrigued about, seeing as how it's difficult to square a complete rejection of supersessionism with much of the New Testament, as it's made clear most of the first Christians were Jewish converts and Paul's writings on the Mosaic Law. Unless you want to argue that Jewish converts were only OK for a period of time, but that's something that I have a tough time backing up.

I'll also point out that a total rejection of supersessionism is actually discriminatory, in the same way the LDS church discriminated against blacks until 1978.

Modern church buildings look modern inside too which is more cool. Like this one that resembles a strip club complete with no overhead lighting, just colored strobes.

Does it still have the poles?

That's the only thing missing. Well and a tip rail.

Talks about gender oppression but unironically uses MILF and objectifies the pastor and women in general. BRTD

On my music forums (which obviously are full of progressive SJW types and have basically no ideological diversity whatsoever), people say "MILF" unironically and "objectify" women in bands all the time (plenty of threads about hottest women in them, etc.) And we're talking about the people who set up and go to things like this.

POTY.  Proof that being a progressive in NO way excludes you from being racist, sexist, prejudice or any other kind of offensive attitude.  You literally just acted like having the word "progressive" (which, let's be real, doesn't really mean anything) on something exempts it from being any negative attribute, LOL.

Keep bein' you, man...

[DC Al Fine]

If I was to think of very odd things that stand out here, I'd instead think of downright wonderful things like people sometimes hardcore dancing and even crowdsurfing during songs sometimes, cases of people using profanity during sermons, or that allowing kids to run up and down the aisles during the service is actually pretty normal and accepted.

*Sigh*

Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. - Ephesians 5:4

It appears BRTD's congregation has removed Paul's words from their faith

Talks about gender oppression but unironically uses MILF and objectifies the pastor and women in general. BRTD

On my music forums (which obviously are full of progressive SJW types and have basically no ideological diversity whatsoever), people say "MILF" unironically and "objectify" women in bands all the time (plenty of threads about hottest women in them, etc.) And we're talking about the people who set up and go to things like this.

And apparently Jesus Christ's as well.

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not talking about my church buy music forums in the second bit. Those are mostly atheist.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The problem with supersessionism isn't so much its attitude towards Judaism as an ethnoreligion as it is the advancement of a narrative about Christian origins that verges on treating the faith ahistorically, but I get that that's not really the point so I'll shut up about it.

Actually that's something I'm a bit intrigued about, seeing as how it's difficult to square a complete rejection of supersessionism with much of the New Testament, as it's made clear most of the first Christians were Jewish converts and Paul's writings on the Mosaic Law. Unless you want to argue that Jewish converts were only OK for a period of time, but that's something that I have a tough time backing up.

The problem with treating the way in which Christianity succeeds the Old Testament law as supersessionism over something comparable to or existing in continuum with modern rabbinic Judaism is that modern rabbinic Judaism can be shown to have developed out of the same environment as early Christianity in somewhat similar ways. Judaism as we know it isn't what got superseded; it's a sister religion more than a mother. Treating it otherwise ignores both the actual nature of the religious culture in which Christianity arose and the existence of history and historical development within Judaism.

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I'm not even thinking of this as relevant to the subject of evangelism and I have a tough time articulating my understanding of why you might be.

[Simfan34]

I wish Protestantism had been stamped out

Don't we all!

Modern church buildings look modern inside too which is more cool. Like this one that resembles a strip club complete with no overhead lighting, just colored strobes.

Even by your standards, this is excessive.

[RFayette]

And apparently Jesus Christ's as well.

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

BRTD and folks created a place to hang out and do what they normally do; they then decided to call it a "church."  I said it on AAD, and I'll say it here.  I'd be a full-fledged IFB member before ever being a member in a BRTD "church." 

[Boston Bread]

IMO, if Mormons are considered Christian I'd give BRTD's church the same recognition.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And apparently Jesus Christ's as well.

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

BRTD and folks created a place to hang out and do what they normally do; they then decided to call it a "church."  I said it on AAD, and I'll say it here.  I'd be a full-fledged IFB member before ever being a member in a BRTD "church." 

Once again I was referring to my atheist filled music forums there. Not church.