What should we do as far as immigration?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mandotarty E Verify

Any company found hiring illegal immigrants will get severely sanctioned and maybe arrests

Deploy the troops in Afghanistan to the Border

Make most legal immigration come from high skilled  workers

If an international student gets a degree in STEM  or buisness immediately give him a green card same with an H1b1 worker in those jobs for over 5 years

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

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I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

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The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

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I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

What facism wow you are noting but a anti American commie. If you dont like the country you can just leave , unlike your commie countries where you get shot if you leave. If it's fasict to be patriotic then I guess FDR was a fasict lol. I agree with him if you want to destory every fabric of American culture, life, economic culture, and hate the country you should  leave and go to some other country which supports your ideals and frankly advocating that is illegal (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) and whoever supports destroying the country should be deported.

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

What facism wow you are noting but a anti American commie. If you dont like the country you can just leave , unlike your commie countries where you get shot if you leave. If it's fasict to be patriotic then I guess FDR was a fasict lol. I agree with him if you want to destory every fabric of American culture, life, economic culture, and hate the country you should  leave and go to some other country which supports your ideals and frankly advocating that is illegal (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) and whoever supports destroying the country should be deported.

If I leave where the f**k would I go? Another imperialist, plutocratic, xenophobic, sexist State that works only for the Capitalist class?

I love how you call me and him fasicts and other names just because we are centrists in my case(lean Republican) a little bit(which we are not by long shots). And if supporting America and business is imperialistic and only working for Capitalist Class then I am proud of it. Y

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

It's called pragmatism. In case you haven't noticed, this is sudden death. Politics isn't touchy feely kiddie stuff. This is the real world - not the dreamland that Marx lived in. And sometimes the 'humane' option isn't the right one, the pragmatic one. I put the interests of America, and Americans first - not some pie-in-the-sky globalist dreams.

If migrant workers want to come here, and be afforded all the legal rights and protections that come with citizenship, they can do it the legal way. It's not that hard.

Socialists like yourself, ultimately though, see, your aim isn't really the peachy keen utopian visions you try to sell. You want a 'stateless' society that you control. You want to undermine this country from within and utterly change the culture, the society, the customs. You don't like America as we know it - in fact, from what I have seen, most Socialists abhor America. So for the last 40/50 years they've tried to destroy America from within by destroying faith in our institutions, belittling our Founders, and blaming every problem in world history on 'old white men.' Your hope is that minorities and white women will rally together to bring about utopian Socialism, where ultimately, it will just become another USSR. You hate America because America represents the cold hard truth - that Capitalism, if regulated, works, and Socialism does not.

I'm not a Fascist. I don't believe in any of the ideals put forth by it. Fascism and Socialism are two peas in a pod. I'm an American and damn proud of it.

a) There is nothing pragmatic about deporting 12,000,000 people or keeping them around as second class citizens. Pragmatism would be to make peace with the fact that they aren't leaving, that our price index is heavily influenced by their exploitation, and that legal immigration is arbitrarily burdensome and in desperate need of reform.

b) A "stateless" society under any singular entity's control is oxymoronic. The rest of that screed was simply moronic.

c) If opposing white entitlement, exploitation of labor, and imperialism is to hate America, then America is not worth loving.

A) The pragmatic idea would be to obey the law and get rid of them.

B) I put 'stateless' in quotation marks because a stateless society will never exist. It will always go to tyranny, you silly Commie.

C) Are you a self hating white person? 'White entitlement'. Guess what, homeboy? The white man isn't the devil. Get over it. 'Exploitation of labor' - You Commies live for exploitation of labor! Without it you wouldn't have anything to complain about. Want to talk about exploitation of labor, go look at the lovely Commie countries who have tried what you've been pushing. Imperialism is the way of the world. I'm sorry, silly Commie, but the world isn't a happy Marxist dreamland. Deal with it.

And get out of this country. Go to Cuba or Venezuela - your ideas are more at home there. And if you want to try to destroying America from within, do it the way the Founders did - don't be a coward hiding in the shadows indoctrinating children.

a) prag·mat·ic
praɡˈmadik/
adjective
dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

Please explain how mass deportation and cultural litmus tests are either sensible, realistic, or practicle.

b) What relevance does the liklihood of a successful stateless society have to do with the definition of "stateless"?

c) Settle down, Beavis. I don't have to hate myself to understand that my race is privileged in this country, nor do I get off on complaining. Apparantly, I am actually a masochist who gets off on attempting to reason with thick neanderthals who want to deport me for not being patriotic enough... which is not fascist at all.

Do you know America has an friendlier immigration system then Europe