What should we do as far as immigration?

[Dazey]

Both parties agree immigration reform is needed. But what would your personal solution be?

Mine is as follows:
-Crack down heavily on illegal immigration. Finish the fence, put a segment of the national guard or military along the border on a permanent basis. Do an operation similar to Eisenhower's to deport already-present illegals. Children of illegal immigrants who are at or over the age of 18 will have the opportunity to become naturalized citizens with no penalty put upon them.

-At the same time, make legal immigration faster and fast track the legal applicants. But by 2020, sign a bill into law which caps the number of allowed immigrants per year to say, 150-200,000 from any country, with preference given to skilled laborers, professionals or those with close family already in the US. Criminal offenders of any kind or those with a history of severe mental illness (meaning having been committed unvoluntarily to a mental hospital) would be restricted from immigrating here.

-Slowly begin steps to formalize English as the national language of the country; get rid of all signs in other languages; reinstate the English testing process for naturalization. At the same time, provide dramatically increased funding for ESL programs.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mandotarty E Verify

Any company found hiring illegal immigrants will get severely sanctioned and maybe arrests

Deploy the troops in Afghanistan to the Border

Make most legal immigration come from high skilled  workers

If an international student gets a degree in STEM  or buisness immediately give him a green card same with an H1b1 worker in those jobs for over 5 years

[YaBoyNY]

I like the idea of pulling troops out of Afghanistan to use on the border.

Unparalleled genius right there.

[Murica!]

Abolish all borders and States.(Not a xenophobic and nationalist piece of sh*t)

[Samantha]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

[TNF]

Abolish all restrictions on immigration and allow for the free movement of people.

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

Say tomorrow illegals get as you call it "full blanket amnesty". Isn't that a gigantic slap in the face to every person who has come here the legal way, who has waited, filed paperwork and taken tests and actually worked to have become a US citizen?

I understand there is a moral component to the illegal immigration issue. As soon as any illegal immigrant has a child here, that child is by default a citizen, and people don't want to rip families apart. But the law is the law. If we let one law not mean anything because morally we're too weak to make a hard choice, one that isn't "nice", that sets a negative precedent IMO. My history is a little rusty, but wasn't one of the reasons for the Fall of Rome the massive migration of the 'Barbarians' into the borders of the Empire?

I believe in the idea that, roughly speaking a country needs to have borders, a common language and a common culture. We've never held to that rigidly here in the US, and I'm not saying we should. But we've veered too far from the concept. I live in an area that is dominated by immigrants in terms of sheer people. I go to bus to college every day, back and forth. Most of the time, I ride the bus with either Eastern European or Asian Americans. Neither of whom, or the majority of whom, do not speak a word of English the entire trip. They chat amongst each other in their languages....I just feel there's something off about that. I love looking at the people and seeing diversity and wondering where all of them came from. I have no problem with their presence here. But at one time, immigrants assimilated into mainstream American society, and in the process they gave a little something of their former culture to America to create that 'Melting Pot.' Nowadays, immigrants from my experience don't assimilate, and continue acting/dressing/talking the way they did in their former culture while not 'sharing' any of their culture to mainstream America.

[Donerail]

I understand there is a moral component to the illegal immigration issue. As soon as any illegal immigrant has a child here, that child is by default a citizen, and people don't want to rip families apart. But the law is the law. If we let one law not mean anything because morally we're too weak to make a hard choice, one that isn't "nice", that sets a negative precedent IMO. My history is a little rusty, but wasn't one of the reasons for the Fall of Rome the massive migration of the 'Barbarians' into the borders of the Empire?

The Mexicans have set approximately zero cities on fire and are not attempting to conduct an armed occupation.

I believe in the idea that, roughly speaking a country needs to have borders, a common language and a common culture. We've never held to that rigidly here in the US, and I'm not saying we should. But we've veered too far from the concept. I live in an area that is dominated by immigrants in terms of sheer people. I go to bus to college every day, back and forth. Most of the time, I ride the bus with either Eastern European or Asian Americans. Neither of whom, or the majority of whom, do not speak a word of English the entire trip. They chat amongst each other in their languages....I just feel there's something off about that. I love looking at the people and seeing diversity and wondering where all of them came from. I have no problem with their presence here. But at one time, immigrants assimilated into mainstream American society, and in the process they gave a little something of their former culture to America to create that 'Melting Pot.' Nowadays, immigrants from my experience don't assimilate, and continue acting/dressing/talking the way they did in their former culture while not 'sharing' any of their culture to mainstream America.

Being made uncomfortable by the presence of people who speak a language other than yours or who dress differently than you is racism. Sorry.

[Donerail]

I believe in the idea that, roughly speaking a country needs to have borders, a common language and a common culture. We've never held to that rigidly here in the US, and I'm not saying we should. But we've veered too far from the concept. I live in an area that is dominated by immigrants in terms of sheer people. I go to bus to college every day, back and forth. Most of the time, I ride the bus with either Eastern European or Asian Americans. Neither of whom, or the majority of whom, do not speak a word of English the entire trip. They chat amongst each other in their languages....I just feel there's something off about that. I love looking at the people and seeing diversity and wondering where all of them came from. I have no problem with their presence here. But at one time, immigrants assimilated into mainstream American society, and in the process they gave a little something of their former culture to America to create that 'Melting Pot.' Nowadays, immigrants from my experience don't assimilate, and continue acting/dressing/talking the way they did in their former culture while not 'sharing' any of their culture to mainstream America.

Being made uncomfortable by the presence of people who speak a language other than yours or who dress differently than you is racism. Sorry.

Wouldn't that be xenophohbia or some form of--I guess--"culturalism"? Left-wingers wearing strange clothing often make me uncomfortable, and their use of language such as "privilege" and the like is off-putting.

He indicated it was specifically linked to their racial/ethnic background.

[TJ in Oregon]

Finish the border fence, increase patrols there, grant the illegal aliens already here legal residential status and an expedited one-time opportunity for citizenship provided they haven't done anything major wrong since they've been here, and crack down on hiring of future illegal aliens.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The US economy depends on illegal immigration...

[Samantha]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Abolish all restrictions on immigration and allow for the free movement of people.

Yes.

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

[Murica!]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

[SWE]

Dazey is a boring troll not worth engaging with.

That being said, this is the correct position:

Abolish all restrictions on immigration and allow for the free movement of people.

Yes.

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

[Murica!]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

What facism wow you are noting but a anti American commie. If you dont like the country you can just leave , unlike your commie countries where you get shot if you leave. If it's fasict to be patriotic then I guess FDR was a fasict lol. I agree with him if you want to destory every fabric of American culture, life, economic culture, and hate the country you should  leave and go to some other country which supports your ideals and frankly advocating that is illegal (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) and whoever supports destroying the country should be deported.

[Samantha]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

It's called pragmatism. In case you haven't noticed, this is sudden death. Politics isn't touchy feely kiddie stuff. This is the real world - not the dreamland that Marx lived in. And sometimes the 'humane' option isn't the right one, the pragmatic one. I put the interests of America, and Americans first - not some pie-in-the-sky globalist dreams.

If migrant workers want to come here, and be afforded all the legal rights and protections that come with citizenship, they can do it the legal way. It's not that hard.

Socialists like yourself, ultimately though, see, your aim isn't really the peachy keen utopian visions you try to sell. You want a 'stateless' society that you control. You want to undermine this country from within and utterly change the culture, the society, the customs. You don't like America as we know it - in fact, from what I have seen, most Socialists abhor America. So for the last 40/50 years they've tried to destroy America from within by destroying faith in our institutions, belittling our Founders, and blaming every problem in world history on 'old white men.' Your hope is that minorities and white women will rally together to bring about utopian Socialism, where ultimately, it will just become another USSR. You hate America because America represents the cold hard truth - that Capitalism, if regulated, works, and Socialism does not.

I'm not a Fascist. I don't believe in any of the ideals put forth by it. Fascism and Socialism are two peas in a pod. I'm an American and damn proud of it.

[Samantha]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

It's called pragmatism. In case you haven't noticed, this is sudden death. Politics isn't touchy feely kiddie stuff. This is the real world - not the dreamland that Marx lived in. And sometimes the 'humane' option isn't the right one, the pragmatic one. I put the interests of America, and Americans first - not some pie-in-the-sky globalist dreams.

If migrant workers want to come here, and be afforded all the legal rights and protections that come with citizenship, they can do it the legal way. It's not that hard.

Socialists like yourself, ultimately though, see, your aim isn't really the peachy keen utopian visions you try to sell. You want a 'stateless' society that you control. You want to undermine this country from within and utterly change the culture, the society, the customs. You don't like America as we know it - in fact, from what I have seen, most Socialists abhor America. So for the last 40/50 years they've tried to destroy America from within by destroying faith in our institutions, belittling our Founders, and blaming every problem in world history on 'old white men.' Your hope is that minorities and white women will rally together to bring about utopian Socialism, where ultimately, it will just become another USSR. You hate America because America represents the cold hard truth - that Capitalism, if regulated, works, and Socialism does not.

I'm not a Fascist. I don't believe in any of the ideals put forth by it. Fascism and Socialism are two peas in a pod. I'm an American and damn proud of it.

a) There is nothing pragmatic about deporting 12,000,000 people or keeping them around as second class citizens. Pragmatism would be to make peace with the fact that they aren't leaving, that our price index is heavily influenced by their exploitation, and that legal immigration is arbitrarily burdensome and in desperate need of reform.

b) A "stateless" society under any singular entity's control is oxymoronic. The rest of that screed was simply moronic.

c) If opposing white entitlement, exploitation of labor, and imperialism is to hate America, then America is not worth loving.

[Murica!]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

What facism wow you are noting but a anti American commie. If you dont like the country you can just leave , unlike your commie countries where you get shot if you leave. If it's fasict to be patriotic then I guess FDR was a fasict lol. I agree with him if you want to destory every fabric of American culture, life, economic culture, and hate the country you should  leave and go to some other country which supports your ideals and frankly advocating that is illegal (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) and whoever supports destroying the country should be deported.

If I leave where the f**k would I go? Another imperialist, plutocratic, xenophobic, sexist State that works only for the Capitalist class?

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

It's called pragmatism. In case you haven't noticed, this is sudden death. Politics isn't touchy feely kiddie stuff. This is the real world - not the dreamland that Marx lived in. And sometimes the 'humane' option isn't the right one, the pragmatic one. I put the interests of America, and Americans first - not some pie-in-the-sky globalist dreams.

If migrant workers want to come here, and be afforded all the legal rights and protections that come with citizenship, they can do it the legal way. It's not that hard.

Socialists like yourself, ultimately though, see, your aim isn't really the peachy keen utopian visions you try to sell. You want a 'stateless' society that you control. You want to undermine this country from within and utterly change the culture, the society, the customs. You don't like America as we know it - in fact, from what I have seen, most Socialists abhor America. So for the last 40/50 years they've tried to destroy America from within by destroying faith in our institutions, belittling our Founders, and blaming every problem in world history on 'old white men.' Your hope is that minorities and white women will rally together to bring about utopian Socialism, where ultimately, it will just become another USSR. You hate America because America represents the cold hard truth - that Capitalism, if regulated, works, and Socialism does not.

I'm not a Fascist. I don't believe in any of the ideals put forth by it. Fascism and Socialism are two peas in a pod. I'm an American and damn proud of it.

a) There is nothing pragmatic about deporting 12,000,000 people or keeping them around as second class citizens. Pragmatism would be to make peace with the fact that they aren't leaving, that our price index is heavily influenced by their exploitation, and that legal immigration is arbitrarily burdensome and in desperate need of reform.

b) A "stateless" society under any singular entity's control is oxymoronic. The rest of that screed was simply moronic.

c) If opposing white entitlement, exploitation of labor, and imperialism is to hate America, then America is not worth loving.

A) The pragmatic idea would be to obey the law and get rid of them.

B) I put 'stateless' in quotation marks because a stateless society will never exist. It will always go to tyranny, you silly Commie.

C) Are you a self hating white person? 'White entitlement'. Guess what, homeboy? The white man isn't the devil. Get over it. 'Exploitation of labor' - You Commies live for exploitation of labor! Without it you wouldn't have anything to complain about. Want to talk about exploitation of labor, go look at the lovely Commie countries who have tried what you've been pushing. Imperialism is the way of the world. I'm sorry, silly Commie, but the world isn't a happy Marxist dreamland. Deal with it.

And get out of this country. Go to Cuba or Venezuela - your ideas are more at home there. And if you want to try to destroying America from within, do it the way the Founders did - don't be a coward hiding in the shadows indoctrinating children.

[Dazey]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

And being against the American State is bad, how exactly?

Well if you live here, you should support the government that we live under, and not try to destroy from within every fabric of American social, economic and cultural life. If you want a Commie or Anarchist paradise, go try it somewhere else.

You are a fascist troll, you are now on ignore.

What facism wow you are noting but a anti American commie. If you dont like the country you can just leave , unlike your commie countries where you get shot if you leave. If it's fasict to be patriotic then I guess FDR was a fasict lol. I agree with him if you want to destory every fabric of American culture, life, economic culture, and hate the country you should  leave and go to some other country which supports your ideals and frankly advocating that is illegal (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) and whoever supports destroying the country should be deported.

If I leave where the f**k would I go? Another imperialist, plutocratic, xenophobic, sexist State that works only for the Capitalist class?

Go to Venezuela - That's a good place for little anti-American Commie scumbags like yourself.