Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

A couple of other things about last night's episode:

1) Dany says that, like her, Jon has also lost two brothers.  At the time she's saying that, doesn't most of the world still believe that Bran is also dead?  Meaning that she'd think that he's lost three brothers?

2) If that is really the end of the greyscale storyline, then it's an incredibly dumb subplot.  All it accomplished was getting Jorah separated from Dany's group for about 8-10 episodes, in a way that seemingly had no impact on the larger storyline whatsoever.

I still hope that Sam's newfound greyscale knowledge ultimately ties in with whatever knowledge he's going to harness against the White Walkers.  After all, we've seen Craster's babies get turned into WWs in a way that evokes greyscale turning people into the stone men, almost like an ice counterpart to greyscale's "fire".  They're both like an infection, so I've long thought that the solution to both problems might be related.  But seeing that the cure for greyscale consists of cutting off the scales and applying ointment, I'm now less hopeful on this front than I used to be.

I forget if it was from the books or some other source, but as I recall, that ointment had a large portion of ground obsidian in it, so the two may be linked, leading to a way of curing the Night King.

[RFK Jr.’s Brain Worm]

Given the peeling paint/clear coat on the hood, I've decided to rename my car Jorah.

That episode was a lot less brutal than I expected, especially in regards to Ellaria and that Sand Snake. I mean it's not a good end for them, but I expected the Mountain to "assist."

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Given the peeling paint/clear coat on the hood, I've decided to rename my car Jorah.

That episode was a lot less brutal than I expected, especially in regards to Ellaria and that Sand Snake. I mean it's not a good end for them, but I expected the Mountain to "assist."

I could see him crushing Ellaria's skull to bring her to an end, especially if King's Landing is about to fall.

[Middle-aged Europe]

and when did Dany become a "bad guy"?  Ok, maybe she isn't the "bad guy", but she sure did a lot things "bad guy"s do last night.

Like what?  She did far worse things in Meereen, like crucifying the masters, feeding one of the Meereenese nobles (who she admitted might have been innocent) to her dragons as an example to the others, and forcing Hizdahr to marry her.

the taking the boat and weapons and the general dickishness, but you're right, she has done dickish things in the past too.

The thing about Daenerys is that she is in fact a Targaryen and that she still acts - at least in part - like a Targaryen. Her experiences of the past couple of years and Tyrion's influence on her have mellowed her a bit so that she isn't a 100% typical Targaryen anymore. But some basic Targaryan arrogance remains. Just think about it that it literally took years for her to finally acknowledge the fact that her father, the "Mad King", was indeed quite insane and deposing him was at least the necessary thing to do.

[Frodo]

I don't know what I want more -Daenerys Targaryen as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and/or Sansa Stark as Queen (or perhaps Warden) of the North.  

BTW, I'm curious about Yara Greyjoy's fate.  It doesn't seem like Cersei (or Jaime) has the same personal animus toward her like she does toward Ellaria and her Sand Snakes.  Could Cersei try to persuade Yara to join her in a bid to provide an alternative to Euron whom she clearly doesn't want to marry -and might eventually do away with once he's no longer of use to her?  Perhaps secretly offering Yara the lordship of the Iron Islands in exchange for joining her cause? 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't know what I want more -Daenerys Targaryen as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and/or Sansa Stark as Queen (or perhaps Warden) of the North.  

BTW, I'm curious about Yara Greyjoy's fate.  It doesn't seem like Cersei (or Jaime) has the same personal animus toward her like she does toward Ellaria and her Sand Snakes.  Could Cersei try to persuade Yara to join her in a bid to provide an alternative to Euron whom she clearly doesn't want to marry -and might eventually do away with once he's no longer of use to her?  Perhaps secretly offering Yara the lordship of the Iron Islands in exchange for joining her cause? 

Euron might try to do as his queen and have familiar relations with a family member, not that I think Yara would go along with that. If they weren't rushing to the end of intra-human conflict by the end of this abbreviated season, we'd probably have a chance to see Yara get insight in how Theon became Reek.

If I'd been the showrunner, I'd have ended the episode with Grey Worm wondering where the Lannister Army was and then had Episode 3.5 deal with the taking of Highgarden. It looked defensible enough, so Olenna should have retreated into it and wait for Dany's dragons to come help. Hence there must have been some skullduggery and betrayal that caused it to fall. Granted, we've seen it before, but that's why we watch Game of Thrones. Unfortunately, it's clear the showrunners have become bored with the series and want to move on to other projects. This easily could've been a ten episode season.

[The Other Castro]

Ugh I caved to pressure and read all the leaks, and now I know how the rest of the season plays out. Obviously I won't spoil anything here.

[dead0man]

why would you do that?

[The Other Castro]

why would you do that?

I knew they were out there and I was bored, so I gave in to the temptations. It was just written descriptions though, and the show's big thing is the visuals, so I didn't spoil myself on everything.

[Mr. Morden]

Unfortunately, it's clear the showrunners have become bored with the series and want to move on to other projects. This easily could've been a ten episode season.

I don't know if I'd put it that way.  First, on the length of the season, while technically it's 7 episodes, most of the episodes this year are a little longer than average.  In fact, Episode 6 is going to be ~70 minutes long, while Episode 8 will be ~80 minutes long.  We're getting the equivalent of about 8 episodes in terms of total run time.  And my understanding is that the shorter season is in large part due to the scale of production being even bigger than it has been previously.  There are more battles and more VFX, and so they are doing the equivalent of producing several big budget feature films within the span of several months.  They are apparently not capable of doing 10 episodes within the span of a year anymore, while delivering the kind of spectacle that they'd like to deliver for these final seasons.

Now even with shorter seasons, they could still have stretched it out into a ninth season, but maybe they just think that for the climax of a show like this, you need to be moving the plot forward at a breakneck speed.  The problem is that even after killing off a third of the characters last year, the cast is still huge, and bigger than it was in Season 1, and so if you don't cut narrative corners and just allow the plot to progress in a natural fashion in the manner of Season 1, then the progression feels slow, because there are too many different epicycles to worry about.  I'm not saying the writers are doing a great job of dealing with this problem, but it is a tough problem to grapple with.

[Mr. Morden]

Btw:

http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/hbo-hack-thousands-of-documents-stolen-1202513573/

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

This is one of those episodes where watching it live is better because the quality would be spectacular.

[diptheriadan]

If the leaks are true (and I suspect they are), then holy sh**t this show has gone downhill. God, I can only imagine how this is going to affect the quality of the books.

[Blue3]

So the remaining members of the main ruling families in the show are...

House Stark
 -Sansa
 -Arya
 -Bran (probably can't have children)
 -Benjen (half-undead)
 -Jon Snow

House Targaryen
 -Daenerys (can't have more children)
 (Jon Snow)

House Lannister
 -Cersei
 -Jaime
 -Tyrion

House Greyjoy
 -Euron
 -Theon (eunuch)
 -Yara (captured)

House Arryn
 -Robyn (training at boot camp somewhere in the Vale)

House Tully
 -Edmure??? +Son???

House Baratheon
 (Gendry?) otherwise extinct

House Tyrell
extinct

House Martell
extinct

House Bolton
extinct

House Frey
extinct




so basically just Starks, Targaryen(s), Lannisters, Greyjoys
(we'll see if Gendry, Robyn, or Edmure are ever important again)



House Tarly (Sam's family) might now be in charge of Highgarden and the Reach, and now a major family.

The rest are just considered commoners, or from minor noble families:

in Oldtown, interacting with Sam...
 -Gilly
 -the Archmaester that Sam reports to

allied with Cersei/Jaime...
 -Qyburn
 -the Mountain
 -Bronn

allied with Daenerys...
 -Jorah Mormont
 -Missandei
 -Grey Worm
 -Varys

in the North storyline, allied with Jon or Sansa or Bran (or the Brotherhood since they're heading North to fight the White Walkers now)...
 -Brienne of Tarth
 -Podrick Payne
 -Davos Seaworth
 -Tormund
 -Edd of the Night's Watch
 -Meera Reed
 -the Hound
 -the two guys in charge of the Brotherhood without Banners, Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion
 -Lyanna Mormont
 -that Lord from the Vale who's been in Winterfell (Royce?)
 -a few Northern Lords who have been named, especially in Jon's coronation scene (Glover, Cerwyn, Manderly), plus the 2 new Karstark/Umber kids
 -Littlefinger

None of the above...
 -Melisandre
 -Hot Pie

[dead0man]

Holy hell that was tense as a mofo at the end.  I need to watch it again as me and the wife got quite drunk during the day yesterday and were still flying high when we watched.  Great episode.

[RINO Tom]

Holy shlt, I had a pit in my stomach the whole time, haha.  What an ending.  It's a weird, sinking feeling now that everyone is in Westeros; you didn't have to choose between people like Jaime and Daenerys dying previously (neither of those things has definitively happened, didn't spoil anything ... it's just that they're enemies in a battle that's coming to a head), but now push is coming to shove.  I was legitimately stressed watching that last battle scene.

[dead0man]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

It worked, it just didn't hit the right part of Drogon.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

Why?  It was clear to me from the moment that I saw it in the basement of the Red Keep that aiming it would be its weakness.

[Blue3]

Great episode! Lots of callbacks this episode...
 
 


Jaime like to kill his Targaryens when their back is turned...
 
 
(T2Q EDIT- Had to remove the Baratheon one due to language)
 
 
 


 
 
 
 
 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 



 
 
 


 
 
 


 
 
 


 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Also, it was learning what happened at the Field of Fire, with the burning of Lannister men, that convinced Torrhen Stark to bend the knee to a Targaryen invader with 3 dragons...
 
 
 
 
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillaume/spoils-of-war?bffbmain&ref=bffbmain&utm_term=.kwDwk8lB8#.kploGvn2v

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

Why?  It was clear to me from the moment that I saw it in the basement of the Red Keep that aiming it would be its weakness.

B/c I really want Dany to die b/c she's sooooooo annoying.  Stannis would've been the best of the possible rulers prior to Shireen's burning (which probably isn't gonna go down in the books the way it did in the show).

[Cory]

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

It worked just fine. The problem was they didn't have enough of them and they weren't ready for it.

If the Lannisters had two more scorpions and a third line of infantry the battle would've been very different.

[Gustaf]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

Why?  It was clear to me from the moment that I saw it in the basement of the Red Keep that aiming it would be its weakness.

B/c I really want Dany to die b/c she's sooooooo annoying.  Stannis would've been the best of the possible rulers prior to Shireen's burning (which probably isn't gonna go down in the books the way it did in the show).

It won't go down the same way, obviously, (I'm almost certain Stannis wins against the Boltons in the books) but I believe Stannis burning Shireen is one of the few specific events GRRM gave to the show-writers in advance.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

Why?  It was clear to me from the moment that I saw it in the basement of the Red Keep that aiming it would be its weakness.

B/c I really want Dany to die b/c she's sooooooo annoying.  Stannis would've been the best of the possible rulers prior to Shireen's burning (which probably isn't gonna go down in the books the way it did in the show).

It won't go down the same way, obviously, (I'm almost certain Stannis wins against the Boltons in the books) but I believe Stannis burning Shireen is one of the few specific events GRRM gave to the show-writers in advance.

I thought he told them Shireen was going to get burned by Stannis' faction rather than Stannis himself, although I could be mistaken.  It certainly won't happen for quite a while if Stannis does it as Shireen is at The Wall (with Selyse and Melisandre whom I could easily see taking the initiative, so to speak, and doing it themselves) while Stannis is fighting a battle at the outskirts of Winterfell.  

Now what I could see is if Stannis defeats the Boltons and takes Winterfell, but then decides to burn Shireen much later in the series when the Others have surrounded Winterfell or after The Wall has fallen as some sort of desperate sacrifice that he wrongly believes would allow him to defeat the army of the dead shortly before he dies in some sort of battle.  I still think it's more likely Selyse and Melisandre just burn Shireen at The Wall without actually telling him though.