Tony's Back in Town: University Choice (Attention Whoring)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hey guys!

I've rarely talked about it directly on the forum, but some of you may know that I was applying for a PhD in several American universities. Well, most of these universities have made their decision known over the past month or so. And while there have been many disappointments (at least two thirds of them said no), I still got into three of them and am waiting for two others.

Thus, my five choices, at this point, are:
- UCLA
- UC Davis
- Duke University
- UNC at Chapel Hill (I'm on waiting list)
- U-IL at Urbana-Champaign (still haven't heard from them)

As you can imagine, it's a pretty tough choice to make. I was wondering if some of you might know some of these universities, and could tell me a bit more about them in order to help me choose. Of course the academics matter most, but I would also want to know about the general quality of life, the people, the features of the area, the campus lifestyle and environment, etc.

Your help is very much appreciated. And I'm of course very excited about all this!

[Oakvale]

I think the consensus is to make a decision based on what kind of fraternity you'd like to join.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Fraternity choice for a Ph.D.? Please. It's all about who you want as your 2nd favorite basketball team (i.e. Not Duke).

In all seriousness, these are all very far from me so I'm not much help, but I have heard only positive things about Chapel Hill from undergrads. That would be my no knowledge about the program frontrunner

[Boris]

I graduated from Illinois (UIUC) in May 2012 with a BA in Political Science. Here's are some thoughts:

- UIUC is extremely walkable with convenient public transport. Rent and drinks at the bars are dirt cheap. I had a car when I lived there, but I used it maybe once a week, if that.

- UIUC is a huge party school with an amazing live music scene. The most fun weekends are opening weekend, Halloween, and "Unofficial" St. Patrick's Day. Barcrawls (mostly affiliated with either fraternity/sorority exchanges or registered student organizations) are ubiquitous year-round. I had a joke major so I went out 4-5 times a week, but even the engineers threw down when they weren't studying.

- UIUC is known for its engineering so you'll interact with a ton of mechanical/civil/comp-sci/McB people. They're very intelligent and do cool sh**t. Learn from them.

- They're basically three scenes: Champaign, Downtown Champaign, and Urbana. A gross oversimplification is that Champaign is full of rage-y frat kids, Downtown Champaign is for sophisticated grad students, and Urbana is for more "indie" types. I was in a fraternity (although around half of my friends were not), lived in both Urbana and Champaign and absolutely love both.

- There's always something new to discover. When I last visited (around October), some friends and I took LSD, went to a free breakfast sponsored by some Jewish organization, went to an animal exhibition with birds and a tiger, walked around the arboretum and Japan House for a couple of hours, went to a brewery in downtown Champaign, and hit up a concert in Urbana.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I think the consensus is to make a decision based on what kind of fraternity you'd like to join.

I have to concur with Oakvale on this one. Greek life offers numerous opportunities for leadership and service, and has a number of specific areas to indulge your interests and hone your skills in: philanthropy, fundraising, recruitment, education, record-keeping, budgeting, public relations, athletics, bylaws, risk management, alumni relations, administration, and the like.

I haven't checked which of your choices has a chapter of the fraternity I'm in, but if they're out there, I can help grease the wheels when it comes to bid-voting with a few well placed calls to their Sage or Rush Chair should the situation arise.

Thanks, I appreciate it. However, to be honest, I don't think Fraternity life really is for me. I've become far more sociable over the past 5 years and I definitely intend to experience new things in the US, but I'm not quite there yet. Maybe once I join I will end up trying it, but I'll first have to see by myself what it's like.

[Indy Texas]

What are you getting a PhD in?

I would go by the strength of the department. That could be the difference between getting a job and not getting a job, or between getting a job at a nice university and being an adjunct wage slave at a community college or for-profit hellhole.

One of my mother's uncles has a PhD in management and an MBA from UIUC. He was a business school professor for several years and then moved into administrative roles at a number of different universities. Granted this was back in like the 1950s/1960s. And he was also married with two very small children when he was doing his doctorate so I don't think he partook of some of the more social aspects of university/academic life.

[Antonio the Sixth]

@Boris: Thanks, that's great to know!

What are you getting a PhD in?

Political Science.

In terms of Deparment strength, I guess UCLA, Duke and Chapel Hill would be the strongest picks. US news has the first two tied for #10 and the latter at #13. Davis and IL are tied for #23.

[ilikeverin]

If you're going for a PhD, very few forumnites will be able to help you, because your primary decision criteria should be how good the program is and how good your prospective advisors would be, and that entails knowledge of political science programs.  I can tell you that if you were interested in studying language, the order would probably be 1) UIUC 2) UCLA 3) UC-Davis 4) UNC 5) Duke, but that's not going to be much help to you.  Perhaps Gully would be the closest?

[Lurker]

Are PHD students in fraternities in the US? I always thought that was a bachelor's degree/undergraduate thing.

[Flake]

[ilikeverin]

Hey guys!

I've rarely talked about it directly on the forum, but some of you may know that I was applying for a PhD in several American universities. Well, most of these universities have made their decision known over the past month or so. And while there have been many disappointments (at least two thirds of them said no), I still got into three of them and am waiting for two others.

Thus, my five choices, at this point, are:
- UCLA
- UC Davis
- Duke University
- UNC at Chapel Hill (I'm on waiting list)
- U-IL at Urbana-Champaign (still haven't heard from them)

As you can imagine, it's a pretty tough choice to make. I was wondering if some of you might know some of these universities, and could tell me a bit more about them in order to help me choose. Of course the academics matter most, but I would also want to know about the general quality of life, the people, the features of the area, the campus lifestyle and environment, etc.

Your help is very much appreciated. And I'm of course very excited about all this!

Very privileged position to be in with such fine options. Congrats.

1) Start by eliminating U-ILUC  and Davis. No need to go lower in academic quality than you have to, even if they are still good programs.

Are you in political science?  If you are, then I'd definitely defer to you about which schools are best.  But, if you aren't, this is exactly the wrong approach to take in PhD programs, where the perceived "academic quality" of the institution does not matter a jot to whether you can actually do what you want with your PhD.   (If anything, that perceived "academic quality" has more to do with undergraduate education, but even then I'd say it's a very tenuous connection.)

[Indy Texas]

Are PHD students in fraternities in the US? I always thought that was a bachelor's degree/undergraduate thing.

I was being facetious, as I assume was oakvale. I was simply reusing what would be a semi-basic recruitment pitch to kids less inclined towards social deviance.

How do you explain away the rampant racism?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to talk to you about PoliSci PhD programs, Tony. For what it's worth, I'd like to congratulate you on getting into Duke and UCLA, which is no small achievement. I know that you mentioned that you were disappointed about not getting into Princeton, Stanford or UC-Berkeley but you should treat yourself.

I looked into Duke and UCLA: it seems like UCLA is more "Americanist", with a heavy emphasis on game theoretic models of political behavior, and Duke has a heavier emphasis on political theory. UCLA doesn't mention political theory, Duke has subfields in political economy and political philosophy. Duke seems like a better fit for you, Tony. Example of why Duke would be a great school for you: UCLA has IR theory, Duke has "Security, Peace and Conflict".

[Foucaulf]

I'm not sure why Politicus's post has vanished, since her and Beet are probably the only ones with enough exposure to poli-sci academia to help you.

Echoing Averroes: ignore most of what has been posted here. Graduate life and undergraduate life are completely distinct. No frat will accept a grad student.

Your choice set should be between UCLA, Duke and UNC. I think you said you wanted to do comparative, right? In that case, regional specification obviously matters. Quant/qualitative divide also matters, though probably not as much as you may think; you'll have to take at least some game theory and a linear models course. Most importantly, you need to look at past placement for people in your field.

How's your funding looking, and are you flying out in the next month? If so, just talk to the people there instead of listening to us bozos.

[Nutmeg]

As someone who was a Political Science PhD candidate, I'd personally go with Duke. But I loved UIUC when I visited on admit weekend as well. Wound up enrolling at Rice, though, but leaving when a better offer came along outside of academia.

[Storebought]

I was a former PhD student in the sciences (chemistry), so I can only offer general advice about grad school.

As a PhD student, you will generally spend the first year or two taking courses, possibly teaching (how good is your spoken English?), and then taking a qualifying exam. After that, you're primary effort will be spent researching, writing, and defending your thesis.

You mentioned something about a fraternity -- put that idea to rest. Joining a social fraternity is out of the question as a graduate student. You can, however, join a scholastic honor society. Phi Beta Kappa is the famous one; in political science, Phi Sigma Alpha is the only recognized one. In any case, a leadership role in an honor society will look good on a CV.

If you can win a scholarship, fellowship, or a grant (US or European), get that too. That looks even better on a CV.

But that is getting a bit ahead of oneself. Right now, your primary motivation -- past fulfilling entrance requirements -- should be finding a well-ranked adviser (status matters) whose research interests best match yours. The quality of the department is secondary (it's not as important as undergraduate, but, still, higher ranked departments have more rigorous programs), and quality of life in town is the third (you will spend four or five years in the place).

A personal question you don't need to answer: Why specifically an American university? What do they offer that UK or Canadian universities don't?

[MalaspinaGold]

UCLA (current UCLA student)

[muon2]

Though my work is not in Poli Sci, there are certain factors in common to the selection of a PhD program. The first question is do you have a masters yet? If not there will be more courses required in the first year or two, so it's worth seeing what those requirements are. If you already have a masters degree some or all of the graduate classroom work may be waived, and that allows one to get to research faster.

The most important factor is the specialty you are interested in. Ranks look at the overall program, but rarely look at the specialties. You should check to see if there are faculty members pursuing research in the specialty that you'd like to follow with your own thesis. Look at recent citations to see if they are actively publishing in your specialty of interest. If they aren't, or the specialty isn't really represented in the department, then you will spend more time looking for an adviser that fits. In the end the PhD is about the relationship between the student and a single adviser, so it's worth looking at schools with that in mind.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I walked away from a PhD in poli sci after 6 months. Make sure, really, really sure, beyond your advisors and the Uni's atmosphere (I also did poli sci (undergrad) at UIUC and recommend the place highly) that it's not just something you 'see' for yourself - but it's something you really want to do.

Beyond that, look at the resources, the support structures and the outcomes from previous and current students.

[Antonio the Sixth]

(Oh, and those US News rankings for graduate programs... you may as well print them on your toilet paper.)

That's good to know. Sadly, they're one of the few sources of information on PhD programs besides the departments themselves or their faculty (where there is always a risk of self-promotion).

Are PHD students in fraternities in the US? I always thought that was a bachelor's degree/undergraduate thing.

I was being facetious, as I assume was oakvale. I was simply reusing what would be a semi-basic recruitment pitch to kids less inclined towards social deviance.

Ah LOL, obviously I fell for the joke. Good thing I don't care about fraternities anyway.

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to talk to you about PoliSci PhD programs, Tony. For what it's worth, I'd like to congratulate you on getting into Duke and UCLA, which is no small achievement. I know that you mentioned that you were disappointed about not getting into Princeton, Stanford or UC-Berkeley but you should treat yourself.

Yeah, I know. I had a lot of foolish dreams when I started my applications, and even though I knew how competitive the selection process is, I couldn't help thinking "why not me?". Stanford and Berkeley were so amazing... Still, I have no reason to be disappointed with my options.

Your choice set should be between UCLA, Duke and UNC. I think you said you wanted to do comparative, right? In that case, regional specification obviously matters. Quant/qualitative divide also matters, though probably not as much as you may think; you'll have to take at least some game theory and a linear models course. Most importantly, you need to look at past placement for people in your field.

Yes, I've selected Comparative Politics as my primary subfield, and plan to focus on Western established democracies (basically, Western Europe and North America), an area that appears to be surprisingly underrepresented among the faculty. Still there are a couple professors I find pretty interesting in each of these universities. I prefer quantitative methods by far, though I'm only interested in their aspect as practical tools, rather than in the formal modeling stuff. Still, I'm fine with learning more on all this stuff.

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Sadly, I'll be unable to fly to the US and attend the campus days. I'm much too busy with my work in my current Master's program (I'm currently working on my thesis). That's why I'm so desperate for information.

Though my work is not in Poli Sci, there are certain factors in common to the selection of a PhD program. The first question is do you have a masters yet? If not there will be more courses required in the first year or two, so it's worth seeing what those requirements are. If you already have a masters degree some or all of the graduate classroom work may be waived, and that allows one to get to research faster.

As I said, I'm finishing my Master's this year. However, I'm not sure if most US universities recognize equivalencies with French degrees. I will have to check with the Department once I make a decision. Still, I wouldn't mind taking courses in the US, tbh. I think I need to familiarize myself with American-style Political Science, which is quite different from the French model.

[Oakvale]

The advantage of doing a pol. sci. PhD in a top university like UCLA is that you can possibly focus your doctorate on the world of horrible academic politics.

[politicus]

I tried asking some pol sci people (ex class mates doing research, former lecturers etc. with US experience). From what I gather Duke should be your default option. Unless there is a specific reason why you are attracted to one of the other places (either academic or social/area wise) Duke seems to be the best of those options, with UCLA second (but as others have said with a profile less suited for your interests - as they come across on the forum).

[Antonio the Sixth]

I guess the academics aspect is the most complex one, and as you guys have pointed our I'm probably the only one who can figure out what is the best fit for me. I will be questioning professors, and possibly students, about that.

At the same time, you guys can definitely help me out on the "quality of life" aspect. Which university is located in the best city/neighborhood? Which campus is more beautiful, or more comfortable? Which place has the nicest people? The most vibrant community? The most interesting cultural features? Etc.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I guess the academics aspect is the most complex one, and as you guys have pointed our I'm probably the only one who can figure out what is the best fit for me. I will be questioning professors, and possibly students, about that.

At the same time, you guys can definitely help me out on the "quality of life" aspect. Which university is located in the best city/neighborhood? Which campus is more beautiful, or more comfortable? Which place has the nicest people? The most vibrant community? The most interesting cultural features? Etc.

I'm obviously biased toward UIUC, but it's limited. It's Chambana... but you do have to travel to see or do much beyond campus culture.

[Nutmeg]

I guess the academics aspect is the most complex one, and as you guys have pointed our I'm probably the only one who can figure out what is the best fit for me. I will be questioning professors, and possibly students, about that.

At the same time, you guys can definitely help me out on the "quality of life" aspect. Which university is located in the best city/neighborhood? Which campus is more beautiful, or more comfortable? Which place has the nicest people? The most vibrant community? The most interesting cultural features? Etc.

Indeed, you should visit in person if possible. If that's not possible, consider Skyping or talking with professors on the phone. As you probably well know, finding at least one main professor with whom your personality and research interests mesh will be extremely important to your personal success, probably moreso than the actual focus/strengths of the program as a whole. That's why I chose Rice, despite hating Houston (I've since come around, though) -- because the world expert in the extremely narrow field I was looking at (fiscal externalities in common-pool resource use) was there.

I wasn't very interested in Illinois until I visited in person after I was admitted, and I fell in love with the town (well, towns -- both Urbana and Champaign). But it's pretty much in the middle of nowhere (said as the son of a native Illinoisan (mother)). That said, the town is awesome and really will allow you to focus on your studies while also enjoying some random, unexpected perks like big-name concert tours. Other than Chicago, which is not really very close, there's nothing interesting around for hundreds of miles (just my opinion). Duke is pretty much its own bubble with hardly anything in Durham worth doing (said as the son of a Duke alum (father) who has been visiting the campus since I was a child), but I think North Carolina is a beautiful state, so if you had a car or a car-sharing membership, there would be a lot to explore in terms of nature. Same obviously applies to UNC, except that Chapel Hill is a better town. In terms of cultural amenities, UCLA obviously offers the most. I absolutely adore Southern California. I  don't know how much you've traveled in the U.S., but it has, by far, the best weather of the 48 states I've visited. I can't speak to UC-Davis at all.