Opinion of ingemann

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

Well I guess your great argument have converted me praise Multi Kulti.

here, for example, is a compilation of muslims condemning isis/l

[ingemann]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

Well I guess your great argument have converted me praise Multi Kulti.

here, for example, is a compilation of muslims condemning isis/l

Praise Multi Kulti

...or you could read the rest of my post, from which the first quote is from. Because I didn't want them say "buh ISIS" I wanted them to come with pro-active suggestion, how they could deal with the radicalisation among their own, and I wanted it from representants from Islamic organisations, not from individual Muslim who carry neither responsibility for these acts or have the prestige to make change in their community.

This is a collective problem, not a individual one.

[Gustaf]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Antonio, last time I checked the Swedish SAP basically copied everything from the German SDP when they started out. Could you go into more detail as to why they would end up differing so much?

(It is true the SDP went along with the crazies in WW1 while the Swedish SAP was very anti-war and anti-nationalist until the 30s or so).

[ingemann]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

[politicus]

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Where the fyck did I say that?!! Stop making stuff up or deliberately misunderstand things I say.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Antonio, last time I checked the Swedish SAP basically copied everything from the German SDP when they started out. Could you go into more detail as to why they would end up differing so much?

I have just given back the good chunk of books that I had borrowed at the university library throughout the winter, so I'm not really able to go into much detail. From what I've seen, the SAP started out pretty similar to other European parties, but rapidly evolved in their outlook during the last decades of the 19th century, under Branting. During the turn of the century, they made of universal suffrage their policy priority and actively cooperated with the Liberals to achieve it - illustrating their commitment to a reformist and parliamentary strategy.

[Gustaf]

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Where the fyck did I say that?!! Stop making stuff up or deliberately misunderstand things I say.

Can be crude and insensitive at times and I disagree with him on plenty. That said he often has interesting perspectives on things and represents a blue collar demographic that is highly underrepresented on Atlas. He has a broad knowledge of many subjects, but it is sometimes shallow and a bit narrow in perspective, as one would expect from someone who educated himself. Should be regarded in the "barks worse than he bites" category and not vilified unnecessarily.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that, but it certainly sounded like you're assuming non-uni people have to be narrow-minded.

[Gustaf]

Antonio, last time I checked the Swedish SAP basically copied everything from the German SDP when they started out. Could you go into more detail as to why they would end up differing so much?

I have just given back the good chunk of books that I had borrowed at the university library throughout the winter, so I'm not really able to go into much detail. From what I've seen, the SAP started out pretty similar to other European parties, but rapidly evolved in their outlook during the last decades of the 19th century, under Branting. During the turn of the century, they made of universal suffrage their policy priority and actively cooperated with the Liberals to achieve it - illustrating their commitment to a reformist and parliamentary strategy.

I remember reading that they were actually pretty Marxist in their outlook well into the 20s, but it was a long time ago that I read it and it was one guy (although the foremost political scientist in the country). Would have to recheck.

[Gustaf]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

Huh? Not sure where that came from or what you're referring to there.

[politicus]

Can be crude and insensitive at times and I disagree with him on plenty. That said he often has interesting perspectives on things and represents a blue collar demographic that is highly underrepresented on Atlas. He has a broad knowledge of many subjects, but it is sometimes shallow and a bit narrow in perspective, as one would expect from someone who educated himself. Should be regarded in the "barks worse than he bites" category and not vilified unnecessarily.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that, but it certainly sounded like you're assuming non-uni people have to be narrow-minded.

I don't see how you can reasonably interpret it that way - and I doubt you were in good faith when you did it. It is clear from the previous sentence that I am speaking about Ingemann's knowledge of "many subjects" (history, religion, sociology etc.) and it is not his mind, but his perspective that is "sometimes a bit narrow".

[ingemann]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

Huh? Not sure where that came from or what you're referring to there.

You mean beside that you translate blue collar into lacking a tertiary education, I work in a blue collar job, because I can earn more doing that, than if I had a job, where I used my tertiary education. This is in no way uncommon, and you even sometimes find a academisation of some of the more specialised blue collar jobs.

I think it's simply because you interact too little or too superficial with people outside your social class, I can also see when I look at the policies you support.

I think you need to interact some more with people who are different from you, and I don't think in superficial aspects like skin colour or religion.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A very convincing refutation of the whole 'the pre-Godesberg Programme SPD were a bunch of pedantic zealots who would have had difficulty running a whelk stall let alone a government' argument exists. And that is the record of the SPD-dominated Prussian state government that lasted from 1918 until the Preußenschlag in 1932.

[Antonio the Sixth]

A very convincing refutation of the whole 'the pre-Godesberg Programme SPD were a bunch of pedantic zealots who would have had difficulty running a whelk stall let alone a government' argument exists. And that is the record of the SPD-dominated Prussian state government that lasted from 1918 until the Preußenschlag in 1932.

I might have exaggerated my argument a bit, but you can't deny that the way Ebert&co handled the 1918-1921 phase was grotesquely catastrophic.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I might have exaggerated my argument a bit, but you can't deny that the way Ebert&co handled the 1918-1921 phase was grotesquely catastrophic.

So it is often argued. I would point out that there is a tendency to let hindsight dominate; we all know what happened next* (so to speak) and so the temptation is to read this into the difficult birth of the Republic (as if antidemocratic forces didn't already exist in German society, as if political violence could have been prevented, as if the Right could ever have been prevented from exploding into an apoplectic fit over Versailles, and so on). I wouldn't personally defend everything that Ebert and the Majority SPD did, but they came to power in extremely difficult circumstances and acquitted themselves a lot better than (for instance) the Provisional Government in Russia.

_{*What makes German historians so prone to teleology? Perhaps there is a special path of German historiographical development, the roots of which can be found in the... (cont. page 838).}

[Gustaf]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

Huh? Not sure where that came from or what you're referring to there.

You mean beside that you translate blue collar into lacking a tertiary education, I work in a blue collar job, because I can earn more doing that, than if I had a job, where I used my tertiary education. This is in no way uncommon, and you even sometimes find a academisation of some of the more specialised blue collar jobs.

I think it's simply because you interact too little or too superficial with people outside your social class, I can also see when I look at the policies you support.

I think you need to interact some more with people who are different from you, and I don't think in superficial aspects like skin colour or religion.

Sorry what? I said no such thing. Politicus said you were self-educated and you didn't deny it so I assumed she wasn't making that up.

Secondly, I'm well aware blue collar workers often make more than academics and that you have people with academic education working in such jobs. There is nothing in my post indicating otherwise.

Thirdly, you have no idea who I interact with. I know plenty of people without college degrees, such as half my family for instance.

I said one sentence, where I said that it I think it's offensive to assume that people who didn't go to college would be more narrow-minded. Not sure where you got this insane rant against me from that.

[Gustaf]

Can be crude and insensitive at times and I disagree with him on plenty. That said he often has interesting perspectives on things and represents a blue collar demographic that is highly underrepresented on Atlas. He has a broad knowledge of many subjects, but it is sometimes shallow and a bit narrow in perspective, as one would expect from someone who educated himself. Should be regarded in the "barks worse than he bites" category and not vilified unnecessarily.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that, but it certainly sounded like you're assuming non-uni people have to be narrow-minded.

I don't see how you can reasonably interpret it that way - and I doubt you were in good faith when you did it. It is clear from the previous sentence that I am speaking about Ingemann's knowledge of "many subjects" (history, religion, sociology etc.) and it is not his mind, but his perspective that is "sometimes a bit narrow".

First of all, that is still offensive though maybe a little less so. Secondly, in the context you were responding to people calling him a racist. When you in that context say that his knowledge is narrow because he didn't go to uni I don't think it's a huge leap to interpret it the way I did.

I'm not one of those people who play vendettas against people. If I hadn't actually found issue with your post I wouldn't have said anything. Whether you choose to believe that is not something I can affect - your strong dislike of me seems to get in the way of any reasonable dialogue.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I might have exaggerated my argument a bit, but you can't deny that the way Ebert&co handled the 1918-1921 phase was grotesquely catastrophic.

So it is often argued. I would point out that there is a tendency to let hindsight dominate; we all know what happened next* (so to speak) and so the temptation is to read this into the difficult birth of the Republic (as if antidemocratic forces didn't already exist in German society, as if political violence could have been prevented, as if the Right could ever have been prevented from exploding into an apoplectic fit over Versailles, and so on). I wouldn't personally defend everything that Ebert and the Majority SPD did, but they came to power in extremely difficult circumstances and acquitted themselves a lot better than (for instance) the Provisional Government in Russia.

_{*What makes German historians so prone to teleology? Perhaps there is a special path of German historiographical development, the roots of which can be found in the... (cont. page 838).}

That's a fair point, yeah, I guess it is hard to judge with the benefit of hindsight. Still, I remember that a few things I've read were really damning.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For people with Politici ideological background, Ingemann represents "honest insutor" important in their agenda.

Am I the only one who genuinely doesn't understand any of this guy's most recent posts? It almost seems like T-host has hacked his account...

[politicus]

For people with Politici ideological background, Ingemann represents "honest insutor" important in their agenda.

Am I the only one who genuinely doesn't understand any of this guy's most recent posts? It almost seems like T-host has hacked his account...

I have never understood the majority of Ethelberth's posts, so I dunno what you mean by singling out his "most recent posts". They are as  unintelligible as always.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For people with Politici ideological background, Ingemann represents "honest insutor" important in their agenda.

Am I the only one who genuinely doesn't understand any of this guy's most recent posts? It almost seems like T-host has hacked his account...

I have never understood the majority of Ethelberth's posts, so I dunno what you mean by singling out his "most recent posts". They are as  unintelligible as always.

Well, maybe I only noticed him in the last couple weeks because he has posted more than usual. He's not usually a significant presence on the forum.

[Gustaf]

For people with Politici ideological background, Ingemann represents "honest insutor" important in their agenda.

Am I the only one who genuinely doesn't understand any of this guy's most recent posts? It almost seems like T-host has hacked his account...

I have never understood the majority of Ethelberth's posts, so I dunno what you mean by singling out his "most recent posts". They are as  unintelligible as always.

Well, maybe I only noticed him in the last couple weeks because he has posted more than usual. He's not usually a significant presence on the forum.

There's always been a bit of a language barrier but recently I think we should all be happy not to understand them too well.