Why the Sweden Democrats are rising (fast)

[Tender Branson]

Refugees protest rural Sweden relocation

Some 40 asylum-seekers refused to leave the bus when they arrived at their destination in rural northern Sweden, demanding that they be taken back to Malmö or "some big city".

When the transport arrived at a housing centre in Grytan south of Östersund the asylum-seekers didn't like the look of what they saw.
 
"I am 75-years-old and come from the Middle East. Then I get sent to a place that looks like this," said a man from Syria to the local Östersunds-Posten daily, pointing to the icy road.
 
"It is dangerous for me to be here," he said.
 
The asylum-seekers, who originate from several countries, refused to leave the bus when it arrived at the small Swedish town. The police were called to assist at the scene but declined to help in escorting the group from the bus.
 
The group is demanding that they be returned to Malmö or some other bigger city.
 
"They were disappointed when they arrived here. It was cold and is not a big city. It is difficult for the police to do anything. We can't eject them from the bus - the matter must first be dealt with by the Enforcement Service (Kronofogden)," said Bengt Stadin at Jämtland police.
 
The Migration Board's (Migrationsverket) press officer Fredrik Bengtsson explained that asylum-seekers are not entitled to select the location of their residence.
 
"We have experienced sometimes that asylum-seekers have a idea of what to expect in Sweden. When that image does not correspond to reality, it becomes a problem."

http://www.thelocal.se/20150101/refugees-protest-rural-sweden-re-location#disqus_thread

...

So, Sweden is taking in 100.000+ asylum seekers this year (or better, last) and then they complain because there's "ice on the streets".

What did they expect ? That they can pick fried chicken down from trees in Sweden ?

[politicus]

Yeah, human traffickers often promise certain things. It is sometimes discussed here if Greenland and the Faroes should take a share of Danish refugees and I could just imagin the reaction if some people where sent to the North Atlantic, but ideally if you are genuinely persecuted you should be grateful to be safe - whether it is in an icy village in Northern Sweden or a small  settlement in Greenland.

With the amount of refugees Sweden takes it would be unrealistic - and probably
counterproductive integration wise - to place them all in big cities. Still, Danish experience shows that refugees that are placed in rural areas leave them as soon as they are legally entitled to, and I imagine this is basically the case everywhere, so spreading the impact of refugees is not an easy problem to solve, but other studies show that rural immigrants generally do better than the ones that go for the big smoke, dunno if it is the same in Sweden - and it could be due to the sort of people that choose to stay in rural areas.

[swl]

Meanwhile a mosque was attacked with Molotov cocktails in Uppsala, third attack of this type this week. Combined with the different car bombs in Malmo (see Nordic general thread), seems like right-wing terrorism is becoming a serious threat in Sweden.

This is not so surprising, my experience with countries such as Netherlands or Sweden that used to be very homogeneous is that under the appearance of tolerance, there is more common racist state of mind than in countries more used to diversity such as Britain or France. I think these countries had until very recently a very naive view of cultural diversity.

[Tender Branson]

The situation in Sweden right now reminds me of the early 1990s here in Austria:

* The Balkan Wars led to a massive influx of (former) Yugoslav refugees, which the Austrian government willingly let into the country in the 500.000 range. The FPÖ was polling 5% at the end of the 1980s (was actually liberal back then like NEOS).

* As more and more "Yugoslavs" or "Yugos" came in, the FPÖ gained extremely. The persona and charisma of Jörg Haider certainly helped too. In 1999, the FPÖ got 27% in the federal election and entered the government.

* The xenophobic hate-crimes increaed, for example the attacks from letter-bomber Franz Fuchs (who sent letter bombs to foreigners and foreigner supporting politicians, such as the Vienna mayor who was at some point badly injured). Fuchs for a long time avoided capture, but as the Austrian police implemented a Rasterfahndung (dragnet investigation), Fuchs became nervous and tried to blow himself up as police officers approached him (he lost both hands) and a few police officers were badly injured (lost hands too). He later hanged himself in his jail cell.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Who gives a sh*t

[politicus]

Meanwhile a mosque was attacked with Molotov cocktails in Uppsala, third attack of this type this week. Combined with the different car bombs in Malmo (see Nordic general thread), seems like right-wing terrorism is becoming a serious threat in Sweden.

It has been for decades, but that is not (or at least only indirectly) related to the topic in this thread. Cases like the one Tender described affects ordinary people's view of refugees and increase the support of SD - but are not the cause of right wing terrorism. That Sweden has a strong Neo-Nazi environment with a substantial capacity for violence is well known.

EDIT: Not saying the timing of the attacks is a coincidence, it clearly isn't, just that the Neo-Nazi terror problem is older than SD.

[swl]

Yes, unfortunately you have crazy extremists everywhere.

[Tender Branson]

Right-wing extremists these days are more subtle/reserved here, ridiculing Muslims and mosques - rather than blowing them up or setting them on fire like in Sweden:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.thelocal.at/20141227/pigs-head-nailed-to-mosque-door-in-vienna

[politicus]

Right-wing extremists these days are more subtle/reserved here, ridiculing Muslims and mosques - rather than blowing them up or setting them on fire like in Sweden:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.thelocal.at/20141227/pigs-head-nailed-to-mosque-door-in-vienna

Now you are derailing your own thread.

[Tender Branson]

Now you are derailing your own thread.

Nah, that was just a short reply to swl's post:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205014.msg4433351#msg4433351

[ingemann]

Meanwhile a mosque was attacked with Molotov cocktails in Uppsala, third attack of this type this week. Combined with the different car bombs in Malmo (see Nordic general thread), seems like right-wing terrorism is becoming a serious threat in Sweden.

The car bombs is believed (to my best knowledge) not to be connected with the extreme right, but something commited by criminals of non-Swedish origin. While the first "attack" on a mosque, lack evidence of being an attack and the "witness", who saw a person run away have not been found. It's believed to have been a fire accident in the mosque, and yes without a witness or any kind of evidence of it being a attack, I don't believe it to have been a attack.

The second two have been clear attacks.

So in short you should change your post to; "meanwhile two mosques have been attacked, likely by the Swedish far right".

[politicus]

Now you are derailing your own thread.

Nah, that was just a short reply to swl's post:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205014.msg4433351#msg4433351

Sure, but we are still getting further and further away from the original topic of refugee  expectations/refugee policy/integration/traffickers and their promises etc. which is a lot more interesting to discuss than this terrorism/attack stuff.

[Beezer]

I emigrated to Sweden and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

[MaxQue]

Well, it's normal than they complain. Swedes are moving out of those rural areas because it's rural, empty without jobs or activities. What the hell would they do there, in fact?

When people leave an area, the solution isn't to force immigrants to move there, it's to increase the attraction of that area.

[politicus]

Well, it's normal than they complain. Swedes are moving out of those rural areas because it's rural, empty without jobs or activities. What the hell would they do there, in fact?

When people leave an area, the solution isn't to force immigrants to move there, it's to increase the attraction of that area.

There is a principal difference between immigrants and refugees. If you seek refuge from oppression and persecution you are supposed to be grateful to the ones that offer you sanctuary. If not, they tend to get suspicious that you are really not persecuted, but just another economic immigrant and then you got the conflict.

[swl]

There is also a difference between asylum seekers and refugees.
Asylum seeker is the status you have before being admitted as a refugee, when your case is being investigated. Under international law, refugees must basically be treated as legal migrants (freedom of movement, right to housing, employment, etc.).

International law is more murky on asylum seekers, and while in theory they not supposed to be detained, you can get the same result for example by sending on an island or in a remote village surrounded by snow.

[politicus]

There is also a difference between asylum seekers and refugees.
Asylum seeker is the status you have before being admitted as a refugee, when your case is being investigated. Under international law, refugees must basically be treated as legal migrants (freedom of movement, right to housing, employment, etc.).

International law is more murky on asylum seekers, and while in theory they not supposed to be detained, you can get the same result for example by sending on an island or in a remote village surrounded by snow.

True, but that is not what the Swedes are doing. It is just cheaper for them to send asylum seekers to low cost areas and it takes some of the pressure away from the cities. The right to housing after being granted refugee status does not entitle you to a flat in a city, it might as well be a house in a village. Also refugees have the right to seek employment, but they are not guaranteed work (and doing so would really fire up animosity in the host community) .

[justfollowingtheelections]

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers refuse to get out of the bus?  I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic here.

[Famous Mortimer]

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers refuse to get out of the bus?  I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic here.

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers have an entitled, ungrateful attitude and also aren't actually legitimate asylum seekers.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers refuse to get out of the bus?  I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic here.

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers have an entitled, ungrateful attitude and also aren't actually legitimate asylum seekers.

Well I wouldn't know if they are legitimate or not, but for someone who has never seen snow in their life, it's impossible to move to the middle of nowhere in a country where they don't speak the language, most likely don't have access to the internet and other media and could use the support of people from their country who speak the same language as they do and usually live in big cities.
If you think this is a good enough reason to support a party like the Sweden Democrats, then I honestly have nothing to say to you. 

[Famous Mortimer]

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers refuse to get out of the bus?  I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic here.

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers have an entitled, ungrateful attitude and also aren't actually legitimate asylum seekers.

Well I wouldn't know if they are legitimate or not, but for someone who has never seen snow in their life, it's impossible to move to the middle of nowhere in a country where they don't speak the language, most likely don't have access to the internet and other media and could use the support of people from their country who speak the same language as they do and usually live in big cities.
If you think this is a good enough reason to support a party like the Sweden Democrats, then I honestly have nothing to say to you. 

If they're afraid of snow, why did they come to Sweden? They should have stayed in one of the many many warmer countries between Sweden and the Middle East.

[politicus]

Sweden Democrats are rising because asylum seekers refuse to get out of the bus?  I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic here.

The logic is fairly obvious. There is a clear expectation among ordinary people that if asylum seekers are truly persecuted they will be grateful for sanctuary and protection and not start by demanding certain privileges (like stayng in a large town). If people suspect asylum seekers are really economic migrants looking for the good life they get hostile towards refugees and are more inclined to vote for anti-immigration parties. It does not matter if it is a "good reason" to do so. It is what happens.

[Cory]

Why can't they just stop letting these people in in the first place? They are disrupting the nice society of the area and just cause trouble anyways. They move in and then refuse to assimilate and just whine and complain and try to change things to suit them.

Scandinavia is one of the few decent places left in the world. It would be a shame if those people came in a ruined it.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Stormfront.txt

Asylum seekers have the right to demand to be placed in a community that provides for their cultural and economic needs. The Swedish government is making a terrible error if it thinks that small towns are proper locations for refugees. It's far more likely that immigrants will be ostracized in small homogeneous communities than in cosmopolitan cities.

[Famous Mortimer]

Sweden must provide for their economic needs? So you admit this is just economic migration. Really though, they are from the third world, so even a tiny town in Sweden is going to better off economically than that where they came from, so that's not really an issue.