Leelah Alcorn, transgender girl, kills self due to bigoted parents

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

WCPO

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Fox News: "Muslim Man Kills Teen Boy with Big Rig: Terror Link Not Ruled Out"

[politicus]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

WCPO

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Fox News: "Muslim Man Kills Teen Boy with Big Rig: Terror Link Not Ruled Out"

And it happened in SOUTH LEBANON..

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

The driver isn't being charged with anything. The people at fault are Leelah's parents.

[The Other Castro]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

The driver isn't being charged with anything. The people at fault are Leelah's parents.

Regardless of the situation, it's kind of messed up to forcibly involve someone in your suicide. It is by no means the driver's fault of course, but that person will probably be haunted by this forever.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I have no idea what trans people go through both internally and externally, but it's obvious that the parents completely dismissed or didn't understand that their late adolescent child was experiencing real and severe emotional and psychological difficulties, and as such should never, ever be treated this way. Minimally, I hope that lesson comes out of this. This is a serious issue that needs to be treated as such. The parents reacted as though their child was misbehaving or something, and that's disturbing.

If they didn't believe that transgenderism is "real", then why wouldn't they think this was a phase or some other sort of rebellious behavior?

Oh, I think they thought it was "real" alright. I think they either dismissed or were ignorant of the underlying causes of what was going on, and that's tragic. They just said, "God made you a boy!" or whatever, which is a complete dismissal of the situation.

I can't ken that anyone who would say that could believe that transgenderism was anything other than a chosen behavior instead of an innate characteristic.  Hence in that sense, they wouldn't believe it was "real".

[Maistre]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

The driver isn't being charged with anything. The people at fault are Leelah's parents.

He knows that HE killed him. That poor driver had to see the mangled body of that kid knowing that HE ran him over. No fault of the drivers but that doesn't mean that they won't be scarred for life or have constant nightmares about it.

If I forced you to kill one person, what would you think of me, regardless of my motivations?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I do feel bad for the driver, but using it to tarnish her memory or imply she was a bad person seems rather ... dubious.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

The driver isn't being charged with anything. The people at fault are Leelah's parents.

He knows that HE killed him. That poor driver had to see the mangled body of that kid knowing that HE ran him over. No fault of the drivers but that doesn't mean that they won't be scarred for life or have constant nightmares about it.

If I forced you to kill one person, what would you think of me, regardless of my motivations?

Her*

[Antonio the Sixth]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

The driver isn't being charged with anything. The people at fault are Leelah's parents.

He knows that HE killed him. That poor driver had to see the mangled body of that kid knowing that HE ran him over. No fault of the drivers but that doesn't mean that they won't be scarred for life or have constant nightmares about it.

If I forced you to kill one person, what would you think of me, regardless of my motivations?

Her*

talking about the truck driver.

No.

[Maistre]

I'm not getting into a stupid debate over pronouns. The point is, if this was an ordinary person who jumped in front of this guy's semi, they would be rightly derided as a reckless, selfish person who does not care about other people. But this person fits the category for a certain political agenda, and is given a 'victim' pass accordingly while the truck driver is just a prop in the story.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I'm not getting into a stupid debate over pronouns.

This "stupid debate" was what killed Leelah. If you refuse to acknowledge who she is, that makes you just as bad as her parents.

[King]

The point is, if this was an ordinary person who jumped in front of this guy's semi, they would be rightly derided as a reckless, selfish person who does not care about other people.

I generally have great sympathy/empathy for anyone who commits suicide, even if they jump in front of a truck.

[They not like us]

I'm not getting into a stupid debate over pronouns. The point is, if this was an ordinary person who jumped in front of this guy's semi, they would be rightly derided as a reckless, selfish person who does not care about other people. But this person fits the category for a certain political agenda, and is given a 'victim' pass accordingly while the truck driver is just a prop in the story.

I typed out about 5 different responses to this post before I did this one, because I just can't fathom this post. I just can't.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Good lord. I'm not sure of the experience level or exposure to issues around suicide... but, do I think suicide is a selfish act from a rational perspective? Yes. Do I think suicide, even methodical and planned ones, are acts undertaken by rational actors? No.

The mindset that creates suicide as a viable option is not one where rational or reasonable thoughts are going be front and centre.

I found a classmate when I was 14, who had killed himself at school. Do I think his making (or anyone else) find him a selfish thing to do? Yes. But equally, did I know or understand his thoughts at that time? Obviously not.

So you can be all high and mighty about selfishness etc, but you'd be missing the point.

[Insula Dei]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

[politicus]

The religious context of this is not 100% clear to me. Is this link between fundis and being against transsexuals as simple as "God ascribed a gender to him/her, it is sinful to change it?" Or is there more to it? (fear of their "son" turning gay by having a relationship to a guy?).

No one answered this, so I will repost.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The religious context of this is not 100% clear to me. Is this link between fundis and being against transsexuals as simple as "God ascribed a gender to him/her, it is sinful to change it?" Or is there more to it? (fear of their "son" turning gay by having a relationship to a guy?).

No on answered this, so I will repost.

I can't really get inside the parents' minds here, but Leelah wrote "they wanted me to be their straight Christian boy", so presumably it's both. Don't take my word for it, though.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

Their moral failures which directly contributed to their child's death.

I agree that Atlas in general isn't an appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

[afleitch]

The religious context of this is not 100% clear to me. Is this link between fundis and being against transsexuals as simple as "God ascribed a gender to him/her, it is sinful to change it?" Or is there more to it? (fear of their "son" turning gay by having a relationship to a guy?).

No on answered this, so I will repost.

There are probably any number of answers to that. The problem is that Christianity, as rooted as it is in patriarchy generally (and I do mean generally here) takes a patriarchal view of sex, gender and sexuality. That doesn't have much room for anything other than man is man, woman is woman, man is 'greater' than women (which mealy mouthed Christians try to make out as being about different roles, attributes rather than a continuation of the Greek understanding of the lesser nature of women) and man and women should procreate. For some it leaves very little wiggle room.

[Insula Dei]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

Their moral failures which directly contributed to their child's death.

I agree that Atlas in general isn't an appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

Well, you can't really know what was going on there, do you? This teenager has left a note where she blames her parents, but I wouldn't trust someone on the verge of suicide to be able to give a levelheaded assessment of his or her situation. And this especially goes for deeply disturbed teenagers, I'd imagine. There was this guy a couple of years above me in high-school who killed himself in a fit of rage because his parents had made him drop out of the boy scouts, which as such things go, is rather a bad reason to do away with yourself. I am fairly confident that he himself wouldn't have wanted his act to stand as an enduring condemnation of his parents. When you're in such an extreme of feeling, reason does seem to have a tendency to give way to a desire to hurt and maim at all costs. When I think of some of the things I have said or thought about people in the throes of much less emotional perturbation,...

At any rate, the message of this sort of news story always risk being: 'Want to teach your insensitive parents a lesson? Well, here's something that'll really show them.', which is a downright murderous message for the media to be spouting.

[ingemann]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

They don't care about the kid, the parents or the driver, this is a platform and nothing else.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

They don't care about the kid, the parents or the driver, this is a platform and nothing else.

I'd be very careful about putting thoughts in people's heads.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

Their moral failures which directly contributed to their child's death.

I agree that Atlas in general isn't an appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

Well, you can't really know what was going on there, do you? This teenager has left a note where she blames her parents, but I wouldn't trust someone on the verge of suicide to be able to give a levelheaded assessment of his or her situation. And this especially goes for deeply disturbed teenagers, I'd imagine. There was this guy a couple of years above me in high-school who killed himself in a fit of rage because his parents had made him drop out of the boy scouts, which as such things go, is rather a bad reason to do away with yourself. I am fairly confident that he himself wouldn't have wanted his act to stand as an enduring condemnation of his parents. When you're in such an extreme of feeling, reason does seem to have a tendency to give way to a desire to hurt and maim at all costs. When I think of some of the things I have said or thought about people in the throes of much less emotional perturbation,...

At any rate, the message of this sort of news story always risk being: 'Want to teach your insensitive parents a lesson? Well, here's something that'll really show them.', which is a downright murderous message for the media to be spouting.

I'd say the parents' continued refusal on acknowledging who their daughter was backs up her claims.

[Cory]

Given that this thread is mainly dedicated to chastising parents who have recently lost their child in an especially unpleasant way for their moral failures, it might not be the most appropriate place for a tasteful discussion of the ethics of suicide.

They don't care about the kid, the parents or the driver, this is a platform and nothing else.

[Mister Mets]

The religious context of this is not 100% clear to me. Is this link between fundis and being against transsexuals as simple as "God ascribed a gender to him/her, it is sinful to change it?" Or is there more to it? (fear of their "son" turning gay by having a relationship to a guy?).

No one answered this, so I will repost.

We may not know, just because there are many ways for Christians to respond badly to their transgender children.

It could simply be their interpretation of doctrine, or how their church has addressed a topic that is relatively obscure (as the percentage of people who are trans is very low.)

They could have simply believed that their child was making poor decisions that would be regretted later. I avoided gender specific pronouns in this sentence because it's about the percentage of parents who viewed their child as male, even if I do agree that we should generally stick with someone's gender of dignity.