The Day they Drove Old Dixie Down

[PBrunsel]

Today, 140 years ago, General Robert E. Lee surrendered the Army of Northern Vrginia to General Ulysses S. Grant, this ended fighting on the Eastern Front of the Civil War and effectively the entire war.

This is the last photograph of R. E. Lee in his entire Confederate Dress uniform. He would never wear it again.



The photogrpah was taken by Matthew Brady, an abolitionist from Massachusettes and a famous photographer. Lee would leave Appomattox an tell his men, "Today I must leave you. Go live honorable lives. If you are as fine in civilian life as you were in army life you will do well, and I will always be proud of you." Lee would spend the rest of his life as dean of Washington College, where he would make it a habit to always march out of step. When he was buried the Collegbe was renamed Washington-Lee.

Grant brought up to Lee that they had met together before durring the Mexican War. Lee did not remmeber what Grant looked like, but Grant remembered Lee well. Lee was a man who represented the "Old South." Dressed emaculately well in his full dress uniform he said to an aide, "I am probabaly to be General Grant's prisoioner, so I must look the part." Grant where a private's old coat, it was speckled with mud.

The treaty itself was signed in the parlor of Wilmer McLean. McLean had left Manasas, Virginia, after the First Battle of the Bull Run. A cannon ball had taken out his wall, and he did not like that at all. He chose to move to a place :where the alarms of war will never find me." The surrender of Lee was singed in his parlor. Untill the day he died McLean bragged, "The war began in my front yead and ened in my front parlor."

The Treaty of Appomattox was quite nice to the rebls. Allowed all officers to keep their pistols and let all soliders keep their horses, it would be planting season soon.

[Cashcow]

Isn't that where our boy Goldie attends?

[PBrunsel]

This well known painting of Lee Surrendering is quite overdone. Lee and Grant did not sign the surrender in the same room, and Lee did not want Grant to see his surrender.

[??????????]

May God bless the good men of the ANV, AOT and those in the CS Navy and far western armies. They were all d'mn good soldiers and true patriots.

[??????????]

Hd Qurs Army Northern Virginia
10th April 1865

General Order
No 9

After four years of arduous service, marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude, the Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources.

I need not tell the brave survivors of so many hard fought battles who have remained steadfast to the last, that I have consented to this result from no distrust of them, But feeling that valor and devotion could accomplish nothing that could compensate for the loss that would have attended the continuance of the contest, I determined to avoid the useless sacrifice of those whose past services have endeared them to their countrymen.

By the terms of the agreement, Officers and men can return to their homes and remain until exchanged. You will take with you the satisfaction that proceeds from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed and I earnestly pray that a merciful God will extend to you His blessing and protection.

With an unceasing admiration of your constancy and devotion to your country, and a grateful remembrance of your kind and generous consideration of myself, I bid you all an affectionate farewell.
R E Lee
Genl[/i]

[Akno21]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

[PBrunsel]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

Had Lincoln lived that would never have happened.

[Akno21]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

Had Lincoln lived that would never have happened.

John Wilkes Booth is one of the most terrible Americans to ever live. To a degree, the failures of reconstruction can be traced to him and his pistol.

[PBrunsel]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

Had Lincoln lived that would never have happened.

John Wilkes Booth is one of the most terrible Americans to ever live. To a degree, the failures of reconstruction can be traced to him and his pistol.

Could have been worse though. The plot was to decapitate the entire Union government. George Adzerot, a German born wagon painter, was to plunge a Bowie Knife into Vice President Johnson. Lewis Payne, a former Confederate Private who had sworn allegience to the Union, was to stab SoS Steward to death, and General Grant was to be assinated the following day by the Confederate Secreat Service. Unfortunately for President Lincoln and American Civil Rights, only Boothe succeeded.

[??????????]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

[PBrunsel]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

Well being a Southerner I would assume you felt that way. Harry Truman's mother always said that Boothe was a great man and she refused to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom at the White House.

[Akno21]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

And I'm sure you loved the 100 years of Jim crow laws that followed?

[PBrunsel]

Akno and States,

This is a discussion is about Appomattox Court House, not the Civil Rights Movement or Jim Crow Laws. Let's not turn this into a flame war.

[dazzleman]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

I generally agree with you, but I'm not sure it's quite that simple.

Reconstruction ended in 1877, so it went on for 12 years after the war.  Of course when reconstruction ended, the federal government essentially stopped enforcing basic constitutional rights for blacks in the southern states for the next 80 years.

But I'm not sure things were going all that well under reconstruction.  The fact that blacks were getting elected doesn't really mean much in the pseudo-democratic environment that existed in the post-civil war south.  Because slaves were prohibited from learning to read or being educated in any way, there were few blacks that were really ready for public office in the years immediately after the civil war, and putting unqualified blacks up for election probably hurt the cause of black advancement more than it helped it.

I sometimes think how different things might have been if Lincoln had lived, reconstruction had been more successful, and there had been better progress on the race issue at a much earlier date.  I think the real roots of our race problem are in the treatment of blacks in the post-civil war period, not slavery.  Had we done the right thing in 1865, rather than 1965, we'd probably be well past the race issue by now.  But in the grand scheme of things, the idea that blacks should be treated equally with whites is a VERY new idea.  Legalized segregation existed in my lifetime, and I'm not that old.

[dazzleman]

Akno and States,

This is a discussion is about Appomattox Court House, not the Civil Rights Movement or Jim Crow Laws. Let's not turn this into a flame war.

Sorry, I just went off on a little tangent too, but my post isn't aggressive, so hopefully it won't ignite a flame war.

[PBrunsel]

Akno and States,

This is a discussion is about Appomattox Court House, not the Civil Rights Movement or Jim Crow Laws. Let's not turn this into a flame war.

Sorry, I just went off on a little tangent too, but my post isn't aggressive, so hopefully it won't ignite a flame war.

Hey, i'm not moderator so you can post what you want. What you posted was pretty relevant a response and I enjoyed reading it. Made some good points.

[dazzleman]

Hey, i'm not moderator so you can post what you want. What you posted was pretty relevant a response and I enjoyed reading it. Made some good points.

Thanks.  I just don't want you to think I'm hijacking your thread.

[Frodo]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

this will be going into my sig. 

[J. J.]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

Booth was a muder who couldn't handle the fact that the Confederacy lost. 

If he was a hero, why not be "Col. Booth, CSA?"

[??????????]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

this will be going into my sig. 

Good. I'm glad.

[??????????]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

Booth was a muder who couldn't handle the fact that the Confederacy lost. 

If he was a hero, why not be "Col. Booth, CSA?"

Actually. I sort of agree that Booth did the wrong thing. What I mean by that is that he did it at the wrong time. He had planned on getting rid of Lincoln in 1863. Now, I believe that CERTAINLY would have had an effect on the outcome of the war. IMHO, 1865 was already to late to make any difference.

[Akno21]

It was a pity the North then gave up on getting any progress down south after 5 years or so. Some blacks were getting elected, things were going well, then we pulled out, and Jim Crow laws took effect.

I generally agree with you, but I'm not sure it's quite that simple.

Reconstruction ended in 1877, so it went on for 12 years after the war.  Of course when reconstruction ended, the federal government essentially stopped enforcing basic constitutional rights for blacks in the southern states for the next 80 years.

But I'm not sure things were going all that well under reconstruction.  The fact that blacks were getting elected doesn't really mean much in the pseudo-democratic environment that existed in the post-civil war south.  Because slaves were prohibited from learning to read or being educated in any way, there were few blacks that were really ready for public office in the years immediately after the civil war, and putting unqualified blacks up for election probably hurt the cause of black advancement more than it helped it.

I sometimes think how different things might have been if Lincoln had lived, reconstruction had been more successful, and there had been better progress on the race issue at a much earlier date.  I think the real roots of our race problem are in the treatment of blacks in the post-civil war period, not slavery.  Had we done the right thing in 1865, rather than 1965, we'd probably be well past the race issue by now.  But in the grand scheme of things, the idea that blacks should be treated equally with whites is a VERY new idea.  Legalized segregation existed in my lifetime, and I'm not that old.

It depends what happened in 1868. If Johnson was considered the logical successor to Lincoln, and he got elected, he'd undo the good Lincoln did in the three extra years he had. If someone with Lincoln's mindset was elected, things may have been very different.

I also agree with you that, in a sense, 1865-1965 was worse than the slavery period. Now, in terms of general rights, it was obviously better, but we treated them like second-class citizens when we were supposed to give them equal rights.

[dazzleman]

It depends what happened in 1868. If Johnson was considered the logical successor to Lincoln, and he got elected, he'd undo the good Lincoln did in the three extra years he had. If someone with Lincoln's mindset was elected, things may have been very different.

I also agree with you that, in a sense, 1865-1965 was worse than the slavery period. Now, in terms of general rights, it was obviously better, but we treated them like second-class citizens when we were supposed to give them equal rights.

Had Lincoln been able to get us on the right course in the first few years of the post-war period, someone like Johnson probably wouldn't have been considered his natural successor.

I also read somewhere that Lincoln was in very poor health by 1865, and probably wouldn't have lived much longer in any case.  I don't know how true it is, but if it is, then his assassination accomplished nothing anyway.

If Lincoln had lived and been away to drain away some of the bitterness from the war and the resulting reconstruction, things would have gotten better in the south a lot sooner, I think.  After the war, white southerners made blacks the scapegoat for their bitter defeat, and less bitterness might have meant better treatment of blacks.  The bitterness was so great that the south effectively imposed 100 years of economic deprivation upon itself in order to maintain segregation, and keep down a significant portion of its population.  It was the stupidest policy imaginable, but had almost unanimous support.

[J. J.]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

Booth was a muder who couldn't handle the fact that the Confederacy lost. 

If he was a hero, why not be "Col. Booth, CSA?"

Actually. I sort of agree that Booth did the wrong thing. What I mean by that is that he did it at the wrong time. He had planned on getting rid of Lincoln in 1863. Now, I believe that CERTAINLY would have had an effect on the outcome of the war. IMHO, 1865 was already to late to make any difference.

Well, the is a big difference between the military targeting the leader of the opposition government and a supporter targeting the leader after the side has lost.

Had Lincoln been killed as a result of a bombartment of Washington, DC, commanded by a Col. Booth, I wouldn't be complaining.

[??????????]

Booth was one of the greatest Americans in US History. A true patriot who sent that tyrant to his maker.

Booth was a muder who couldn't handle the fact that the Confederacy lost. 

If he was a hero, why not be "Col. Booth, CSA?"

Actually. I sort of agree that Booth did the wrong thing. What I mean by that is that he did it at the wrong time. He had planned on getting rid of Lincoln in 1863. Now, I believe that CERTAINLY would have had an effect on the outcome of the war. IMHO, 1865 was already to late to make any difference.

Well, the is a big difference between the military targeting the leader of the opposition government and a supporter targeting the leader after the side has lost.

Had Lincoln been killed as a result of a bombartment of Washington, DC, commanded by a Col. Booth, I wouldn't be complaining.

I really don't have any problems with most of the actions committed by rogue guerillas during the war.