Scottish Independence referendum, 2014

[Lurker]

I'm conflicted.  As an American I worry what independence means for the military capability of our most steadfast ally.  I frankly think the rest of the Union would be strengthened economically without Scotland.  On the other hand, I fully support self determination, devolution and question the legitimacy of the Union in the first place.  Were I a Scot, I would support a Republic.

Voted yes in the poll.

Why do you consider the UK to not be "legitimate", and what does this entail?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Is it possible that Scotland might adopt the euro as its currency?

Ten years ago that was the original plan, but clearly thanks to the Eurozone crisis that is now a non-runner... which is why there is so much debate about the currency.

[politicus]

If "Yes" wins, how does this affect other independence movements? A shot in the arm, I assume?

Would Catalonia and Basque be next?

There are all sorts of speculation about this, I have even seen that the obscure Bavaria Party (big in the 50s, but got 2,1% in the last election), thinks this is a chance to reinvigorate their cause of Bavarian independence. Whether or not this "free Scotland" boost will actually amount to much is anybody's guess.

[ingemann]

I'm conflicted.  As an American I worry what independence means for the military capability of our most steadfast ally.  I frankly think the rest of the Union would be strengthened economically without Scotland. On the other hand, I fully support self determination, devolution and question the legitimacy of the Union in the first place.  Were I a Scot, I would support a Republic.

Voted yes in the poll.

Yes clearly (sarcasm).

Scotland are right now a major reason the British BOP doesn't look worse than it does, so no the British economy will be weaken by losing Scotland.

Somewhat surprising given that median earnings are quite a bit lower in Scotland than in England (something like 20 vs 25 K).

Seeing that those thing have nothing to do with the BOP (which are solely based on import and export), it's not really surprising. The reason that Sotland are a net gain for the British BOP are quite simple, most of the British oil production lies in Scottish territorial waters, and while UK no more produce more oil than they consume, it still have great effect on lowering the import.

[7,052,770]

Second question: if Yes wins, will the UK change its flag to remove the white X part?

[Mordecai]

No. An independent Scotland with the British pound as its currency seems like a really terrible idea.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Second question: if Yes wins, will the UK change its flag to remove the white X part?

The flag will be changed but no one knows what exactly to.

[swl]

I made up my mind on this question and I now support Yes. My main hope is that a Yes vote would somehow create a shock wave and shake up Europe, that really needs to be awaken.

[Oakvale]

The fleg is not going to be changed.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Why are so many Americans invested in the outcome?

[Oakvale]

Why are so many Americans invested in the outcome?

Crippling autism!

Long live Britain!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Second question: if Yes wins, will the UK change its flag to remove the white X part?

Doubtful as it technically is more of a royal standard than a national standard and continues to have some use with national flags in the Commonwealth realms of which Elizabeth is still queen.  Now it may well be that the Disunited Kingdom will make more use of the English flag than is presently the case, but the Union Flag should remain as is.

[Velasco]

I made up my mind on this question and I now support Yes. My main hope is that a Yes vote would somehow create a shock wave and shake up Europe, that really needs to be awaken.

I think that is not the shock Europe is needing.

If "Yes" wins, how does this affect other independence movements? A shot in the arm, I assume?
Would Catalonia and Basque be next?

I guess it would be something like a boost for the independence movement in Catalonia, which has been affected by certain corruption scandal involving a former regional premier. However, the problem between Spain and Catalonia is going to last several years. The Basque Country is calm at the moment and awaiting. Hard to predict the outcome in Catalonia, because turbulence approachs to Catalan and Spanish politics. In short, dynamics are quite different.

Actually, I have nothing against the independence of Scotland. I voted 'no' because of the currency issue, indirect repercussions in other places and because I'm not particularly in love with Scottish nationalism. Anyway, it's their choice.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Most of the UK's oil reserves are off Scotland (and so, yes, Britain's BOP would certainly be hit by Scottish independence), but Scotland benefits from disproportionate allocation of public spending (currently via the Barnett formula; would rather bite off my own hand than get into a discussion about the details of that, mind) and its large financial sector benefits from the stability of being in the UK. Probably it works out as something of a wash.

[swl]

I think that is not the shock Europe is needing.

It would boost several causes I support such as:
-Irish reunification
-Catalan independence
-the rUK leaving the EU

Main inconvenient: the rUK would probably remain governed by horrible people for a long time.

Immediately after the referendum, there would be uncertainties with negative consequences for us Europeans, but these will pass.

So I am leaning Yes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Krugman is absolutely right, and I don't get why Scotland wouldn't want to create their own currency - it's not that big of a step after gaining political independence.

(before someone tells me I'm a hypocrite for supporting Euro, remember that I also want common EU fiscal policy)

[MalaspinaGold]

Why are so many Americans invested in the outcome?

Crippling autism!

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EDIT: Happy?

[Oakvale]

Why are so many Americans invested in the outcome?

Crippling autism!

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How dare you make it look as though Snowstalker's empty quote of my post is his original work.

Long Live Britain!

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I had empty-quoted that post from TNF.

[politicus]

Krugman is absolutely right, and I don't get why Scotland wouldn't want to create their own currency - it's not that big of a step after gaining political independence.

(before someone tells me I'm a hypocrite for supporting Euro, remember that I also want common EU fiscal policy)

They need to convince a large group of anxious fairly apolitical low information voters that it is safe to vote Yes. Getting your own currency sounds risky.

[MalaspinaGold]

Exactly. To a certain extent it is demoting Scotland to the status of protectorate- Bank of England controls monetary policy, and Scotland having no say in the Bank of England.

If Scotland really wants to become independent, they really should sever completely, and not play with this kind of fire. Ironically, an independent currency might be the least risky of the options available.

[Velasco]

Krugman is absolutely right, and I don't get why Scotland wouldn't want to create their own currency - it's not that big of a step after gaining political independence.

(before someone tells me I'm a hypocrite for supporting Euro, remember that I also want common EU fiscal policy)

They need to convince a large group of anxious fairly apolitical low information voters that it is safe to vote Yes. Getting your own currency sounds risky.

In other words, they need to be somewhat dishonest in order to carry those voters to their column, even though the independence they are voting may be something merely symbolic, meaningless.

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-bank-england-governor-4191557

I think that is not the shock Europe is needing.

It would boost several causes I support such as:
-Irish reunification
-Catalan independence
-the rUK leaving the EU

Such causes are respectable, but I doubt they are going to contribute for the awakening of Europe. The Irish reunification I think it's a matter of time (demography). In my opinion, the Catalan independence might be a disaster for Spain and Catalonia. I'm neither a fan of Spanish nor the Catalan nationalism, and I believe they all are falling in different degrees of stupidity. From the Spanish side Rajoy (PP), Sánchez (PSOE) and Diaz (UPyD) persist in their dimwittedness and lack of vision, while IU lives in a limb. The only one who has said something clever is Pablo Iglesias (Podemos), without actually proposing any thing ("I prefer if we stay together, but who I am to tell Catalans what they have to do?"). What the Catalan nationalism is selling is all smoke and mirrors. The ruling conservative nationalists are approximately as stupid as their counterparts in Spain. Meanwhile the ERC is undeservedly reaping the benefit, because of its ability to stay in government and opposition at the same time. Likely they are going to be their SNP. As for the UK out of the EU, it would be fine. Anyway, why the Brits could not be accompanied by other 'euroesceptic' countries? Perhaps it would make more sense recovering the idea of a 'common market' enlarged with Turkey and other peripheral countries, while the core of the former EU-15 try to build a cohesive Union. Well, this is talking for talking's shake

[patrick1]

I'm conflicted.  As an American I worry what independence means for the military capability of our most steadfast ally.  I frankly think the rest of the Union would be strengthened economically without Scotland.  On the other hand, I fully support self determination, devolution and question the legitimacy of the Union in the first place.  Were I a Scot, I would support a Republic.

Voted yes in the poll.

Why do you consider the UK to not be "legitimate", and what does this entail?

Because of the way it was passed,  bought and paid for and jammed down the populaces throats with no input. I realize 1707 is a long time ago but as a democracy now the people should have right to self determination that they were never granted. By equal measure the Act of Union of 1801 was also illegitimate, in my opinion.  Even without real representative democracy, the first attempt failed and then it was crammed through by bribery. The tragedy that an Irish Parliament had to have responded better to the Famine, it being really hard to do much worse.

[IceSpear]

Krugman is absolutely right, and I don't get why Scotland wouldn't want to create their own currency - it's not that big of a step after gaining political independence.

(before someone tells me I'm a hypocrite for supporting Euro, remember that I also want common EU fiscal policy)

They need to convince a large group of anxious fairly apolitical low information voters that it is safe to vote Yes. Getting your own currency sounds risky.

Something tells me the Scots are taking this a lot more seriously than typical low information American voters take their elections.

[politicus]

Krugman is absolutely right, and I don't get why Scotland wouldn't want to create their own currency - it's not that big of a step after gaining political independence.

(before someone tells me I'm a hypocrite for supporting Euro, remember that I also want common EU fiscal policy)

They need to convince a large group of anxious fairly apolitical low information voters that it is safe to vote Yes. Getting your own currency sounds risky.

Something tells me the Scots are taking this a lot more seriously than typical low information American voters take their elections.

A large number of people who are estranged from the political process and don't normally vote are going to vote this time. Theses people - as well as many others - will go by their guts on currency matters ad other complicated stuff (most voters do, really).

Generally overcoming "the fear factor" has been SNPs main obstacle. Sticking with the pound is a necessary part of this.