What Would Happen?

[ilikeverin]

Let's say, on the same day, the President is killed by a living pretzel named Edgar.  While the Vice President is being motorcaded to the SEKRET BUNKER OF HAPPEENESS, his limo is crashed into by an old lady.  The Vice President dies (but the old lady lives, her cancer miraculously cured somehow...).

The Speaker of the House is an immigrant.  Is he sworn in, even though he was not born in the US?

(and if the answer is no, pretend that by some magical twist of fate every single other person in the line of succession is an immigrant)

[Joe Republic]

As a non-American cannot be sworn in, the line of succession would just have to keep going.  In this particular case, it would keep going until it reaches Mike Naso.

[J. J.]

The House would elect a Speaker that is a citizen, perhaps Mike Naso.

[ilikeverin]

The House would elect a Speaker that is a citizen, perhaps Mike Naso.

The immigrant is a citizen.

But I concur.  Mike Naso is the obvious choice.

[J. J.]

The House would elect a Speaker that is a citizen, perhaps Mike Naso.

The immigrant is a citizen.

But I concur.  Mike Naso is the obvious choice.

You're right, it should be "natural born citizen, eligible to be president."  When Mike Naso turns 35, perhaps.  :-)

[Redefeatbush04]

Let's say, on the same day, the President is killed by a living pretzel named Edgar.  While the Vice President is being motorcaded to the SEKRET BUNKER OF HAPPEENESS, his limo is crashed into by an old lady.  The Vice President dies (but the old lady lives, her cancer miraculously cured somehow...).

The Speaker of the House is an immigrant.  Is he sworn in, even though he was not born in the US?

(and if the answer is no, pretend that by some magical twist of fate every single other person in the line of succession is an immigrant)

I never thought of that......good job ilikeverin. I don't know. Ya know what would be cool: somehow every member of congress and the presidents cabinet are immigrants. I can picture the anarchy. MWAHAHAHAHA

[J. J.]

The thing is, the Speaker does not have to be a member.  The House could elect someone eligible for the Presidency as Speaker and you'd get succession.

[J.R. Brown]

If everyone in the line of succession were not eligible, a special election would be held.

[A18]

The presidency passes to the first person in the line of sucession who is eligible for that office.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

However, the line of succession is only 17 people deep,
VP
Speaker
PPT
14 of the heads of the Executive Departments (Secretary of Homeland Security has not yet been placed into the line of succession due to disagreements over where to put him and the perceived low priority of doing so.)

In the given scenario it could well become a race to see which House gets an elgible person in place as either Speaker or PPT.

[MaC]

the mayor of DC throws a military coup and becomes our next leader.

God, how much does that suck? Mayor of DC.  You've got the seat, but there're hundreds of senators, reps, and executive branch people that are far more powerful than you, and have more money and fame.  (at least you can do crack and get re-elected)

[zorkpolitics]

This is the order of succession already includes two people who ar eineligible becaus ehtey were not born int he US:
The Vice President Richard Cheney
Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
President pro tempore of the Senate Ted Stevens
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez (ineligible)
Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao (ineligible)
Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge

If all 17 are dead or ineligible,  the House or Senate would vote for a new Speaker or President Pro Temp, thus refilling the order sussession.   There is no provision for a special election.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

zorkpolitics, as I already pointed out, the order of Presidential succession (contained in 3 USC 19) has not yet been amended to include the Secretary of Homeland Security.  There is a dispute over whether to place the Secretary at the end of the list or after the Attorney General in the Presidential succession list and over whether to clean up some other provisions of section 19 of title 3.  A bill passed the Senate in the last Congress but not the House.  It has been reintroduced as S.442 and is currently in committee.  It would place the Secretary of Homeland Security after the Attorney General and make no other changes, but it is not yet law.

[Bugs]

Another question about the original scenario.  The vice-president becomes president as soon as the president dies.  Is he included on the list of presidents even though he is never sworn in?

[minionofmidas]

I'd say no. He acted as president but he was never a president.
I'm surprised to not see the Chief Justice anywhere on the list of succession.

[jimrtex]

There is no provision for a special election.

A curiousity is that there was such a provision at one time (this was the original succession law that Congress passed).  If both the President and Vice President died, then the Senator Pro Tem or House Speaker (I can't remember which) would only act as president until a new election was held.  The new election would have been held on the same basis (electoral college, etc.) as the regular elections were.  The law simply copied the relevant parts of the Constitution.

[DanielX]

the mayor of DC throws a military coup and becomes our next leader.

God, how much does that suck? Mayor of DC.  You've got the seat, but there're hundreds of senators, reps, and executive branch people that are far more powerful than you, and have more money and fame.  (at least you can do crack and get re-elected)

... if you're a (preferably black) Democrat. Republicans (with very few exceptions) need not apply in DC.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

A quick search of Thomas shows that there are 4 bills, all currently stuck in commitee going nowhere to add the Secretary of Homeland Security to the presidential secession list.  In bill number order they are:

S. 442
This bill has the same text as one which passed the Senate in the 108th Congress, but failed to be passed by the House.  All it does is place the Secretary of Homeland Security after the Attorney General in the secession list.

S. 920
Is a more ambitious bill, and if I thought it had any chance of passage would help explain the excessive controverst over Mr. Bolton.  It makes its additions to the end of the list after the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, but in addition theo the Secretary of Homeland Security it would add in order the Ambassadors to the UN, to Great Britain, to Russia, to China, and to France.

In addition it provides that if a cabinet officer gets to act as President, it only on a temporary basis until the Speaker or the President pro Tem accepts the office of President or the President or Vice President is no longer unable to perform their duties.

Then it adds some legally meaningless sense of the Congress language that suggests that it would a good idea f political parties when they nominate a President and Vice President should also decided who their electors will vote for in the case of something unfortunate happening to one or both of the candidates before the electors vote.

Finally, it adds more sense of the Congress mumbo-jumbo to suggest that it would be a good idea for the outgoing President to submit the cabinet nominations of the President-elect on January 3 so that it would be possible for for them to take office on January 20 with the incoming President.

H.R. 1455
Besides adding the Secretary of Homeland Defense after the attorney general a la S. 442 this bill also makes the Department of Homeland Security one of the listed Executive departments in 5 U.S.C. 101.

H.R. 1943
This is the exact same bill as S. 920.

[A18]

The Speaker and PPT should be taken out of the line of succession, as they are not 'civil officers'

The attorney general should be the first.

[TomC]

Whatever President nominated a cabinet with total immigrants and thus made such a constitutional messshould...well he's already dead anyway, isn't he?

[Peter]

I like the idea of S 920, but I don't think it goes far enough - the Line of Succession should be expanded to at least 100 posts, if not several thousand if at all possible.

I heard a proposal a while ago that we should add the Governors of the 50 States in the order that they ratified the Constitution or acceded to the Union on to the bottom of the line of succession. I'm not sure whether this would have constitutional problems however vis a vis the theoretical problems concerning the Speaker and PPT.

[nini2287]

Another question about the original scenario.  The vice-president becomes president as soon as the president dies.  Is he included on the list of presidents even though he is never sworn in?

David Rice Atchison was President for 1 day in 1849 because Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on a Sunday and he is never mentioned as a President.

[Peter]

Another question about the original scenario.  The vice-president becomes president as soon as the president dies.  Is he included on the list of presidents even though he is never sworn in?

David Rice Atchison was President for 1 day in 1849 because Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on a Sunday and he is never mentioned as a President.

By your reasoning it is required that a President swear in to actually become President: Since Taylor did not swear in on the Sunday, he was not President. Since Atchison did not swear in either, does it not stand to reason that he was not President either?

Arguably, the United States did not have a President at all for that day since no person was duly sworn into be President.

[nini2287]

It's better than when New Jersey had 6 governors in an 8-day time span.

[minionofmidas]

Another question about the original scenario.  The vice-president becomes president as soon as the president dies.  Is he included on the list of presidents even though he is never sworn in?

David Rice Atchison was President for 1 day in 1849 because Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on a Sunday and he is never mentioned as a President.

By your reasoning it is required that a President swear in to actually become President: Since Taylor did not swear in on the Sunday, he was not President. Since Atchison did not swear in either, does it not stand to reason that he was not President either?

Arguably, the United States did not have a President at all for that day since no person was duly sworn into be President.

Exactly: Atchison was Acting President but was not President.
Question answered, btw.