Wages for Housework Act

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Did I mention the Mincome experiment yet? If not, here goes:

In the 1970s, a proposal was made in Manitoba for a UBI, and they tested it out to see how many people would stop working. Working hours were reduced by 5% overall, mostly by working mothers (to focus on their children) and students (to focus on their studies). The following two quotes are from this NYT article on UBI.

"Evelyn Forget, a health economist at the University of Manitoba, has done some of the best research on the results. Some of her findings were obvious: Poverty disappeared. But others were more surprising: High-school completion rates went up; hospitalization rates went down. 'If you have a social program like this, community values themselves start to change,' Forget said."

"'For a lot of economists, the issue was that you would disincentivize work,' said Wayne Simpson, a Canadian economist who has studied Mincome. 'The evidence showed that it was not nearly as bad as some of the literature had suggested.'"

This next quote is from the Wikipedia article on UBI:

"However, in studies of the Mincome experiment in rural Manitoba, the only two groups who worked less in a significant way were new mothers, and teenagers working to support their families. New mothers spent this time with their infant children, and working teenagers put significant additional time into their schooling. Under Mincome, 'the reduction of work effort was modest: about one per cent for men, three per cent for wives, and five per cent for unmarried women.' Another study that contradicted such decline in work incentive was the Namibian pilot project implemented in 2008 and 2009 in the Omitara village; the assessment of the project after its conclusion found that economic activity actually increased, particularly through the launch of small businesses, and reinforcement of the local market by increasing households' buying power."

[President Tyrion]

I don't necessarily agree that a major target of a UBI should be to subsidize those who wish to stay at home on a whim.

I think the threshold we should be aiming for is $60,000 per year for a base unit family of four. That's generally the consensus on the "required" amount for basic necessities and basic lifestyle.

That'd break down as $20k per adult and $10k per additional dependent, on average.

But, like I said, I'd like to see it indexed to location in whatsoever manner possible.

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Another point is that a UBI might allow us (and particularly me) to stomach lowering barriers in the labor market. We can probably roll back the minimum wage, and we can probably be less stringent on the length of the work week (since workers have more leverage, they can choose to work 40 hrs if they so desire without us fearing for their mistreatment as much).

[Simfan34]

Then let's try some pilot programs of our own.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

What pilot programs would you propose, Mr. Simfan, sir? After all, we walk on untrodden ground.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

If we're going to try a pilot program, I feel like there's a role for the Department of Internal Affairs in there somewhere... It just seems like the SoIA is well-positioned to act as an emissary between the federal government and whichever jurisdictions are hosting the program.

Like, we can't really make one region be the guinea pig without their input, can we?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If we're going to try a pilot program, I feel like there's a role for the Department of Internal Affairs in there somewhere... It just seems like the SoIA is well-positioned to act as an emissary between the federal government and whichever jurisdictions are hosting the program.

Like, we can't really make one region be the guinea pig without their input, can we?

I vote we do it to the Midwest. They'll be cool with it.

[TNF]

The Midwest or the Northeast seem to be the best candidates for a pilot program, given their respective ideological tilt and willingness to work with the federal government.

[Dr. Cynic]

Well, the NE has a big budget surplus that could be put to good use....

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Well, the NE has a big budget surplus that could be put to good use....

Hm...I would like free money.

[President Tyrion]

A pilot program would be great!

Hopefully we can lay the groundwork for a full plan, as well, as we move forward.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Would it be possible to craft some kind of program here but not vote on it, let whichever region we choose vote on accepting the project concurrently, and then vote here after the region has expressed its opinion? Or is that a very convoluted process?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

In fact, you could just pass a bill that a) makes the funds available to the region, and b) outlines the parameters of a qualifying program. Once the region passes a suitable bill, I can just release the funds through the Department of Internal Affairs. This is probably the easiest and most collaborative way to do it.

[President Tyrion]

In fact, you could just pass a bill that a) makes the funds available to the region, and b) outlines the parameters of a qualifying program. Once the region passes a suitable bill, I can just release the funds through the Department of Internal Affairs. This is probably the easiest and most collaborative way to do it.

I'm not quite sure what the benefit is. Could you elaborate?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I don't like the idea of forcing it down the region's throat at the federal level, that's all. I mean, otherwise you'd be passing a bill that only affects one region... Basically you'd be passing a regional bill. Plus, doing it the way I suggest would actually involve the regional assembly in the process. Obviously it's up to the senate, but I'm willing and ready to help bring things into effect if need be. Two regions almost immediately passed anti-homelessness legislation after y'all passed the Public Means Public Act, so obviously the system can work.

[President Tyrion]

I don't like the idea of forcing it down the region's throat at the federal level, that's all. I mean, otherwise you'd be passing a bill that only affects one region... Basically you'd be passing a regional bill. Plus, doing it the way I suggest would actually involve the regional assembly in the process. Obviously it's up to the senate, but I'm willing and ready to help bring things into effect if need be. Two regions almost immediately passed anti-homelessness legislation after y'all passed the Public Means Public Act, so obviously the system can work.

Well, presumably we'd have the region's permission to do a pilot program. If they want to design it to a greater extent than we can, I'm fine with it.

[DemPGH]

I don't like the idea of forcing it down the region's throat at the federal level, that's all. I mean, otherwise you'd be passing a bill that only affects one region... Basically you'd be passing a regional bill. Plus, doing it the way I suggest would actually involve the regional assembly in the process. Obviously it's up to the senate, but I'm willing and ready to help bring things into effect if need be. Two regions almost immediately passed anti-homelessness legislation after y'all passed the Public Means Public Act, so obviously the system can work.

Well, presumably we'd have the region's permission to do a pilot program. If they want to design it to a greater extent than we can, I'm fine with it.

This sounds like a good idea and a pilot program I would support. We'll of course need to keep track of it, which I'm sure Hagrid would be happy to do. The threshold proposed earlier (60K) sounds very reasonable to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What time frame are we looking at with regards to the pilot?

[President Tyrion]

What time frame are we looking at with regards to the pilot?

Well, we'd want to see implementation ASAP, I believe.

And then I'd really like to see us be able to have a full-fledged discussion of the issue next year (which is nearly half a decade forward in Atlasian time). Naturally, 5 months isn't really long enough for a real pilot program, but we don't have forever.

[TNF]

Does anyone have a rough idea of what they would want the pilot program to look like? I have a few ideas, but I'd like to see some input from everyone else before I present them to the whole Senate for consideration.

[President Tyrion]

Does anyone have a rough idea of what they would want the pilot program to look like? I have a few ideas, but I'd like to see some input from everyone else before I present them to the whole Senate for consideration.

I really have no idea what the preferred scale of this Senate is. I'd be willing to really just introduce it to a whole region, but that might not be tenable.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Certainly a region would be interested in volunteering for the role no? If I have time I will talk to scott, but healthcare might be taking up too much energy at present for the IDS to proceed with such. I need to check the IDS gov't threads too before I get off.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

How about somewhere between $1500 and $2000 a month for the pilot program? I'll check with my Northeastern buddies and see if they might be willing to take on the program.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Scott is pretty strapped right now and I am in dire straits myself, they don't give you money for nothing.

[TNF]

How about somewhere between $1500 and $2000 a month for the pilot program? I'll check with my Northeastern buddies and see if they might be willing to take on the program.

I think $2400 per month would probably be a good start. $600/week is a good benchmark.

[TNF]

Bumping this before I introduce an amendment outlining a process by which to turn this into a pilot program.