Arab-Americans Tell Census, 'We're Not White'

[Mechaman]

And if you want to distance yourself from "whiteness" because of the awful history of whites you can't exactly exclude the Portuguese. They got quite the history of colonialism and genocide too.

Well what about the Scottish, the Slovaks, the Czechs, the Irish, the Sicillians, the Serbs, European Jewry in general, the Poles, and the myriad of other "white" ethnic groups who were themselves very much oppressed and had what would easily be considered "crimes against humanity" committed against them by other "white" groups?  Should they bother to identify with a census designation that has such horrible and politically incorrect connotations?

Or should we just scrap the whole damn thing?  Is that the point you're trying to make?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And if you want to distance yourself from "whiteness" because of the awful history of whites you can't exactly exclude the Portuguese. They got quite the history of colonialism and genocide too.

Which is why I went with the blanket term "Hispanic".   

But you're still white with that. Hispanic isn't a separate category.

And if you want to distance yourself from "whiteness" because of the awful history of whites you can't exactly exclude the Portuguese. They got quite the history of colonialism and genocide too.

Well what about the Scottish, the Slovaks, the Czechs, the Irish, the Sicillians, the Serbs, European Jewry in general, the Poles, and the myriad of other "white" ethnic groups who were themselves very much oppressed and had what would easily be considered "crimes against humanity" committed against them by other "white" groups?  Should they bother to identify with a census designation that has such horrible and politically incorrect connotations?

Or should we just scrap the whole damn thing?  Is that the point you're trying to make?

Racial categories are not good or bad. It's not just silly but also with really Unfortunate Implications to argue there's anything positive or negative about the white designation (and I say this as someone who trashes white people all the time.) All the groups you mention are unquestionably "White" in the modern day US. Arabs are more of a gray area obviously, but not any of the above.

And those don't exactly have spotless histories either, see Scottish colonial empire, Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Great Northern War, Italian colonialism in northern Africa, plenty of actions of Israel and the Bosnia war.

[Deus Naturae]

For Arab-Americans, the situation is different. Particularly if you're Muslim, you're facing a lot of discrimination comparable to what a bona fide non-white person in America faces; but you get none of the "benefits" non-whites get via affirmative action because you are treated, on paper, like a European-American white.

So a lot of them feel like they're saddled with the "responsibilities" of being white but none of the "privilege" of being white. No offense, but I doubt that kind of discrimination is a problem for you.

Why would Arabs be eligible for affirmative action?

[angus]

I reckon that the portuguese-speaking and portuguese-sirnamed are as legit as spanish-speaking and spanish-sirnamed when it comes to choosing Hispanic.  Just my opinion.

Also, it doesn't matter to me whether they're as lilly-white as norwegians or as dark black as the tires on a car.  Hispanic, after all, isn't a race, and it states that clearly on the census forms.

I still say it's all hogwash, but as long as we're going to have the categorization, I wouldn't quibble with a portuguese-American claiming hispanicity so long as the category exists.

[ingemann]

Most Arab-Americans are above average income, why should they benefit from affirmative action?

Also something like 2/3 of them are Christians (and a quarter Muslim) and they mostly come from the Levant.

So honestly if you people meet these people on the street





Would you think that they were people of colour?

[tallguy23]

I don't think it's just Arab Americans, but Middle Eastern Americans in general that want this. According to current Census definitions, even Iranian Americans should be classified as white. Most Iranians would disagree with this classification.

[Hifly]

I don't think it's just Arab Americans, but Middle Eastern Americans in general that want this. According to current Census definitions, even Iranian Americans should be classified as white. Most Iranians would disagree with this classification.

As someone who has Iranian family I can certainly say that for theme to be classified as anything but White would be an insult to them, even those with a darker skin tone.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

People who are from the literal "Land of the Aryans" are most certainly white.

[patrick1]

People who are from the literal "Land of the Aryans" are most certainly white.

Appealing to dead racists and pseudo-science doesnt really prove your point. Here in 'Merica racists have more exacting standards and most Iranians would not be accepted as white.

[Indy Texas]

So honestly if you people meet these people on the street



Would you think that they were people of colour?

Of course not. I'd be too busy punching them in their Caucasian faces.

[Hifly]

People who are from the literal "Land of the Aryans" are most certainly white.

Appealing to dead racists and pseudo-science doesnt really prove your point. Here in 'Merica racists have more exacting standards and most Iranians would not be accepted as white.

Iran means "Land of the Aryans"; this isn't racism or "pseudo-science", whatever that means. There's a large variety of skin colours among Iranians. Some who originate from the North East May be even classified as Asian based on their oriental facial features. In the North West, you'll find many who don't even look Middle Eastern.

[muon2]

The underlying issue is what categories of people require specific attention under the VRA. The original VRA provided for racial categories. When Hispanic was added it was not as an additional racial category, but instead as a language minority. Given the fight over VRA renewal last decade, it's hard to see how Congress would agree to either new categories for groups like Arabs (are they a language minority or racial minority) or to consolidate the two types of categories to a single list (eg remove the language minority question and add Latino to the racial list). Perhaps if there's a move to restore a mechanism for section 5 then the categories would also be addressed, but I'm skeptical.

[angus]

How would "Arab" as an ethnic categorization have anything to do with voting rights?  As I understand it, the act was meant to address groups which have historically been denied voting access.  Does Arab have such a history in the United States?

Also, doesn't the Shelby decision of last year sort of dismantle most of it?

[muon2]

How would "Arab" as an ethnic categorization have anything to do with voting rights?  As I understand it, the act was meant to address groups which have historically been denied voting access.  Does Arab have such a history in the United States?

Also, doesn't the Shelby decision of last year sort of dismantle most of it?

If you look at the questions asked on the 2010 Census, they were all associated with redistricting and voting rights. All other questions are part of the American Community Survey. The Shelby County decision only blocked the part of Section 4 that described the jurisdictions used by section 5 of the VRA. Section 2 still applies everywhere and references that part of Section 4 that identifies the protected groups.

[angus]

Section 2 still applies everywhere...

Ah, I guess I'm going to have to look that up.

Okay, according to justice.gov, section 2 applied a nationwide prohibition against the denial or abridgment of the right to vote on the literacy tests on a nationwide basis.  Also, it says that a 1982 amendment allowed a plaintiff to establish a violation without having to prove discriminatory purpose.  I really don't see a connection to that and the inclusion of Arab in the growing list.

That said, I also don't think we should have any of it to begin with.  Having racial (and ethnic) considerations just seem to confuse and cause problems.  For example, in this thread we have an original Aryan arguing with others over whether Persians are white.  (I say they are, by the way.  But that shouldn't really have anything to do with the census.)  For that matter, anyone whose voting rights are violated, no matter their ethnicity or no matter their region of residence, would have a case against the violator--with or without the voting rights act--and if your lawyer needs to rely on that act to make the case that your constitutional rights have been violated if somebody doesn't let you vote, then I respectfully suggest that your lawyer is a schmuk and you really ought to fire him and hire another.  

[muon2]

Section 2 is not just about literacy tests. It's what forces states to create districts that can elect the candidate of choice of a section 4 listed minority. The list hasn't changed since 1975 when language minorities were added. It would seem that Arabs could be treated like any other Asian language minority. The Census does not distinguish between any other specific Asian languages, and it seems unlikely that Congress would do that for Arabic speakers but not Hindi or Vietnamese ones.

[Indy Texas]

The problem is that other than very recent immigrants who were granted asylum here from places like Iraq, I doubt you'll find any Arab-Americans who don't speak English. The bulk of them are 3rd+ generation Americans and they never lived in concentrated neighborhoods to begin with, so learning English was a very rapid process for them by necessity.

You see "Chinatowns" in most big cities. You see Vietnamese or Korean neighborhoods. You never see "Arab" neighborhoods in large cities. The closest you get to that is Dearborn, MI, and, again, nearly all of them speak English in daily life.

[muon2]

The problem is that other than very recent immigrants who were granted asylum here from places like Iraq, I doubt you'll find any Arab-Americans who don't speak English. The bulk of them are 3rd+ generation Americans and they never lived in concentrated neighborhoods to begin with, so learning English was a very rapid process for them by necessity.

You see "Chinatowns" in most big cities. You see Vietnamese or Korean neighborhoods. You never see "Arab" neighborhoods in large cities. The closest you get to that is Dearborn, MI, and, again, nearly all of them speak English in daily life.

But the Census doesn't differentiate between Asians who speak English or not when it comes to redistricting. They can use the ACS to determine if ballots need to be in non-English languages.

[patrick1]

People who are from the literal "Land of the Aryans" are most certainly white.

Appealing to dead racists and pseudo-science doesnt really prove your point. Here in 'Merica racists have more exacting standards and most Iranians would not be accepted as white.

Iran means "Land of the Aryans"; this isn't racism or "pseudo-science", whatever that means. There's a large variety of skin colours among Iranians. Some who originate from the North East May be even classified as Asian based on their oriental facial features. In the North West, you'll find many who don't even look Middle Eastern.

I'm not talking about word origins or language families here. The pseudo science is the scientific racism that was peddled by people like Chamberlain and latched onto by the Nazis. I'm aware of the variety of features in Iraq.  Most racists arent very sophisticated and wouldnt make the distinction between an Arab, Persian, Punjabi or Bengali for that matter.  They are all lumped into a general suspicious pool.

[Хahar 🤔]

Obviously race is a social construct and all, but I have a hard time figuring out a reasonable definition of "white" that would exclude Persians.

[memphis]

Obviously race is a social construct and all, but I have a hard time figuring out a reasonable definition of "white" that would exclude Persians.

Obepo used to argue that white only included Northern and West Europeans. Italians and Jews need not apply.

[WalterMitty]

how come no one wants to be white any more?

[angus]

how come no one wants to be white any more?

We have Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  They have MLK, Beyoncé, and Samuel L. Jackson.  You do the math. 

[Person Man]

how come no one wants to be white any more?

We have Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  They have MLK, Beyoncé, and Samuel L. Jackson.  You do the math.  

Nice.

Then again, it could be divided into "ethnic" minorities and "racial" minorities.  Ethnic minorities have a small but significant  phenotypical overlap with what Thom Tillis calls the "traditional population" but doesn't with the culture or religion of them. They may have been subject to some large scale discrimination, but not to anything like slavery, the holocaust or Jim Crow.  Racial minorities are groups those who have no phenotypical overlap with the local population and may have been subject to large scale discrimination in recent history.

[Badger]

how come no one wants to be white any more?