ronald reagan vs. hugo chavez

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Living standards objectively improved in Venezuela under Chavez's leadership. They didn't in America under Reagan. Ergo...

Living standards objectively improved in the Soviet Union under Stalin's leadership. They didn't in America under Carter. Ergo...

Come on man, that's all they've got.

Reagan

The results of this poll honestly scare me.

It's about Reagan and if a lefty at 17 knows ANYTHING it's that Reagan is the worst person in the last 40 years not named Bush.

It IS all about Reagan!  The United States is an ultra-resource rich, wealthy, and strong superpower that has more than enough resources to make life bearable for all Americans.  He decided to implement and justify a culture where the working class feels as if it should bow down to it's "superiors" and just be lucky for whatever breadcrumbs they allow for the toilers.  There are millions of poors in this country who literally think it's THEIR fault they are poor because of that piece of garbage, when it is all by the design of the people who pulled his puppet strings.  

EDIT: Think about this; in the USA, those who defend the WORKING CLASSES are the ones who are considered ELITIST.  It's ridiculous and 100% the 1980s GOP agenda to turn the U.S. economy into a personal cash flow.  And it's been working for 30 years. 

[dead0man]

It IS all about Reagan!  The United States is an ultra-resource rich, wealthy, and strong superpower that has more than enough resources to make life bearable for all Americans.  He decided to implement and justify a culture where the working class feels as if it should bow down to it's "superiors" and just be lucky for whatever breadcrumbs they allow for the toilers.  There are millions of poors in this country who literally think it's THEIR fault they are poor because of that piece of garbage, when it is all by the design of the people who pulled his puppet strings.

As someone who has actually known many poor people, I've never met one that feels the way you think they feel.  Have you ever actually met someone that feels this way?  Sure, I've known people (poor and non-poor) that are aware enough to admit that some of the choices they've made in life have lead them to their current situation, but most of them have things closer to home to blame (parents, schools, peers, teachers, the judicial system) for their situation than what some politician said about them 30 years ago.


and FTR, some people ARE poor because of some fault of theirs.....as it has always been and will be until the Star Trek utopia comes around



and how does one person "implement and justify a culture"?  What kind of weak willed peon allows someone else to change their entire way of thinking?  I didn't understand the painting Bush the Lesser with the "evil genius" brush and I don't understand the same thing being done to Reagan.  I don't see the evil or the genius in either man.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

It IS all about Reagan!  The United States is an ultra-resource rich, wealthy, and strong superpower that has more than enough resources to make life bearable for all Americans.  He decided to implement and justify a culture where the working class feels as if it should bow down to it's "superiors" and just be lucky for whatever breadcrumbs they allow for the toilers.  There are millions of poors in this country who literally think it's THEIR fault they are poor because of that piece of garbage, when it is all by the design of the people who pulled his puppet strings.

As someone who has actually known many poor people, I've never met one that feels the way you think they feel.  Have you ever actually met someone that feels this way?  Sure, I've known people (poor and non-poor) that are aware enough to admit that some of the choices they've made in life have lead them to their current situation, but most of them have things closer to home to blame (parents, schools, peers, teachers, the judicial system) for their situation than what some politician said about them 30 years ago.


and FTR, some people ARE poor because of some fault of theirs.....as it has always been and will be until the Star Trek utopia comes around



and how does one person "implement and justify a culture"?  What kind of weak willed peon allows someone else to change their entire way of thinking?  I didn't understand the painting Bush the Lesser with the "evil genius" brush and I don't understand the same thing being done to Reagan.  I don't see the evil or the genius in either man.

A lot of poors today will look to Bush... but that's basically Reagan, no?  Trickle down.  Tax cuts for riches.  That said, I've met plenty of poors who point right to Reagan.   But are we going to resort to Naso proofs?  Who cares about our personal experiences.  The fact is that there are far more poors in this country today because Ronald Reagan got elected to do the bidding of his corporate puppet-masters. 

[Meursault]

Quite literally, he was an actor. Who shilled cigarettes and electricity. Who ran for President with corporate backing.

Anyone who doesn't see Raygun's obvious masthead role as National Salesman evidently does not believe there is a power structure in America.

Do I think Reagan was evil? I don't believe in evil. I think he was earnest. And I think he was easily led by the nose - and much less jolly than his public face.

[dead0man]

The fact is that there are far more poors in this country today because Ronald Reagan got elected to do the bidding of his corporate puppet-masters. 

You keep saying this.  I've heard this before from people wanting Reagan to look as bad as possible, but I'm not sure why.  Can you point directly to some things done by Reagan that caused there to be millions more poor today than there would have been had, say, Anderson or HW Bush won the nomination and Presidency?

Look, I'm no fan of the guy, I just don't think he's as cartoonishly evil as you and the other usual suspects proclaim him to be.  I say "proclaim" because I don't think a lot of you actually believe the spin.  I understand the need for a little balance against the "Reagan single handedly won the Cold War!" side, but outside of a GOP fund raiser, you never hear that.  You hear Reagan was the devil a bunch more.  Or at least I do, but I chose to hang out with the types more likely to say he's evil than I am to hang out with the bunch that think he's Jesus.  The former are more fun than the latter.

[Franzl]

Reagan was pretty bad, but I suppose I'd choose the dumb person who's sure to leave at some point over the dumb person I might be stuck with forever.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

The fact is that there are far more poors in this country today because Ronald Reagan got elected to do the bidding of his corporate puppet-masters. 

You keep saying this.  I've heard this before from people wanting Reagan to look as bad as possible, but I'm not sure why.  Can you point directly to some things done by Reagan that caused there to be millions more poor today than there would have been had, say, Anderson or HW Bush won the nomination and Presidency?

Look, I'm no fan of the guy, I just don't think he's as cartoonishly evil as you and the other usual suspects proclaim him to be.  I say "proclaim" because I don't think a lot of you actually believe the spin.  I understand the need for a little balance against the "Reagan single handedly won the Cold War!" side, but outside of a GOP fund raiser, you never hear that.  You hear Reagan was the devil a bunch more.  Or at least I do, but I chose to hang out with the types more likely to say he's evil than I am to hang out with the bunch that think he's Jesus.  The former are more fun than the latter.

1. Then what is he?  WRECKED the middle class.

2. No, even my liberal mother thinks that.  The GOP are wonderfully effective. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

As much as it pains me to join in to a quote pyramid originated by such specimens as Einzige and Snowstalker...

Chavez.

No worse than joining a quote pyramid with the likes of YOU, Antonio The Prude.   

Wow, I got my own surname? That's pretty cool.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Reagan (sane).

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Chavez, more's the pity.

I've seen this idea that 'prudishness' is somehow as bad as or worse than, well, being Einzige or Snowstalker (or opebo, or whoever else) being kicked around on this forum for some time now and I've despaired of it ever making any more sense to me even as an abstract notion.

[Citizen Hats]

The Republicans here are right. The number of you who would some unsustainable social safety net for democracy is quite rightly horrifying