Should slavery be reinstated?

[Beet]

Yes, this is another inspired poll, and you can make 1,000's similiar polls if so desired.

But consider this: we already tell our high school students in many states they must perform community service, and prisoners are sometimes found doing work, at least they were in the past.

[??????????]

It is legal to use prisoners for labor purposes without pay. Read the 13th Amendment.

[Lunar]

It is legal to use prisoners for labor purposes without pay. Read the 13th Amendment.

Can we pay them in friendship points or bits of string?

[A18]

No, the 13th amendment is good. Too bad no one followed it in times of war.

[Blerpiez]

Yes, this is another inspired poll, and you can make 1,000's similiar polls if so desired.

But consider this: we already tell our high school students in many states they must perform community service, and prisoners are sometimes found doing work, at least they were in the past.

High schoolers do not need to perform community service, only if they want to graduate.

[dazzleman]

Yes, this is another inspired poll, and you can make 1,000's similiar polls if so desired.

But consider this: we already tell our high school students in many states they must perform community service, and prisoners are sometimes found doing work, at least they were in the past.

Making prisoners perform labor is not slavery; it is part of punishment for a crime.  Slaves committed no crime other than being born with the wrong skin color.  So the two are not comparable.

Neither is the high school community service requirement.  That is a minimal and short-term commitment, and intended to be enriching to the student as well as the community.  You might just as well call homework slavery.

As an aside, at my high school, they sometimes used to make students who got in trouble for breaking rules do work details after school as punishment.  I wish I had known my "rights" back then; I would have contacted the ACLU about it.

Of course, I voted no slavery under any circumstances.  What other way is there to vote?

[opebo]

Making prisoners perform work robs Union Workers of a well-paid job.  Or would in an ideal world where everyone was protected by a union.

[angus]

I'm with the UN on this, both in terms of abolishing slavery worldwide, and in how slavery is defined.  Your examples are far from anyone else's definitions, by the way, which, in and of itself is not a problem since you can define any term in any way you like.  But remember, the first point of debate, as any high-school debating team student will tell you, is to define terms.  If you expect to have a real debate about modern slavery, you should do some reading first in order to be able to defend whatever off-the-wall definitions you make.  Unless, as I suspect, your point is to vetch and moan about the sad lot of the adolescent.  In that case, wail on young man.

"Making teenagers depressed is like shooting fish in a barrel."
   --Bart Simpson

[PBrunsel]

Making prisoners perform work robs Union Workers of a well-paid job.  Or would in an ideal world where everyone was protected by a union.

Your the only guy I know who wants a Prisoners' Union.

[angus]

It is legal to use prisoners for labor purposes without pay. Read the 13th Amendment.

I don't have a problem with that, and neither does the government nor do most non-governmental organizations such as NATO and the UN.  I can tell you that, given the choice to sit in a 5 by 8 feet cinderblock cell day after day, or walk around in an orange vest on the side of interstate 95 watching the pretty girls drive by in their convertible BMWs, I'll definite opt for the latter.  I suspect most felons would.  Also, as an added benefit, outside work gives me a chance at escape.  Escaping is the most natural urge in the world, and as a matter of tradition, is encouraged in basic training to every US military service person.  What should you do if you get caught by the enemy?  Try to escape.  The good ones usually try.  The lazy ones don't.  It works the same with prisoners.  I know I'd want to Adopt a Highway if I were given the opportunity.

But back to the relevant point, i.e., the bitching about the sad lot of the overburdened high-school student.  Let's bitch a little more about that.  Teachers make us sit still and quiet!  Damn fascists!  We gotta fight for our right to party!  Here's the deal pal, when you pay the rent, then you can make the rules.  Oh, man, I'm gonna love parenting, I can tell already. 

[phk]

No slavery would drive down wages, increase crime etc.

[opebo]

Making prisoners perform work robs Union Workers of a well-paid job.  Or would in an ideal world where everyone was protected by a union.

Your the only guy I know who wants a Prisoners' Union.

No, that's not what I said.  I don't want the prisoners doing any work, because it would take good jobs away from non-prisoner union members.  For example if people want the highways cleaned, let them pay a fellow $25/hour to do it.  With benefits.

[angus]

No slavery would drive down wages, increase crime etc.

yeah, I think that's pretty much everybody's position.  but you should not pass up the opportunity to harass with this guy for trying to compare exploitation of captives as labor, or for (gasp!) teachers requiring the little bastards to do something besides daydream of that soft pink poontang during class.  Learn a little service.  why not?  they sure as hell aren't teaching 'em history, science, and math anymore.  might as well teach 'em something.  your tax dollars at work, ladies and gentleman.

sorry, what a jackass rant.  I've just been paying a little more attention to the public schools and their failures, lately.  this thread is striking evidence of the lack of critical thinking that I mentioned during one of my previous rants.

[David S]

It is legal to use prisoners for labor purposes without pay. Read the 13th Amendment.

Yes slavery as punishment for a crime is legal, but I take the question to mean do we support restoring slavery of innocent men, women and children who would become the property of others? To that I emphatically answer NO!

[David S]

Yes, this is another inspired poll, and you can make 1,000's similiar polls if so desired.

But consider this: we already tell our high school students in many states they must perform community service, and prisoners are sometimes found doing work, at least they were in the past.

Making prisoners perform labor is not slavery; it is part of punishment for a crime.  Slaves committed no crime other than being born with the wrong skin color.  So the two are not comparable.

Neither is the high school community service requirement.  That is a minimal and short-term commitment, and intended to be enriching to the student as well as the community.  You might just as well call homework slavery.

I diasagree on allowing states to require community service for graduation. This idea sets a precedent that the states may require service of the residents. Once that precedent is set its just a matter expanding the program until everyone is a servant of the state.

One could ask; if this program is OK for your kids then why not you? And instead of 40 hours why not 100 or 1000 hours per year, or why not all of your time?

Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited except as punishment for a crime. That protects the freedom of every American citizen.We should not allow the government to encroach on that freedom at all, not one bit.

The bureaucrats inflicted this program on high school students first for several reasons:
1) The kids are too young to realize they are being indoctrinated into believing that they are servants of the state.
2) Most of them are too young to vote so they cannot throw out the politicians who are enslaving them.
3) It sets the precedent.

If you don't think there is a plan to expand this program to include everyone then you need to read some of John Kerry's comments on national service. If I still have them on my hard drive I'll post them here.

[David S]

OK I found them. Here are some of John Kerry's comments on national service: (BTW I don't think the links work now)

218 . "Nothing I hope to do as President will be more vital than reconnecting America's public life to the ideal of full citizenship. In this time of testing, of profound danger and vast potential, the real question we face is not what America can offer to us, but what each of us owe to America. To protect our nation and meet our potential, we will have to harness the faith, the energy, and the commitment of people of all ages in communities across the country."
 Kerry, John. "A New Era of National Service." Manchester, New Hampshire. May 19, 2003. http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0519.html

223 . "My aim is nothing less than to make national service a way of life for each new generation of Americans. So I will set a goal within the next decade of enlisting five hundred thousand young people a year in Service for College—more than one out of seven young Americans working side by side, in many different ways, but with a common commitment to our best hopes and values."
 Kerry, John. "A New Era of National Service." Manchester, New Hampshire. May 19, 2003. http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0519.html

221 . "Today, I propose not only to build on that tradition, but to go beyond it—because today, our challenges are different and our commitment must be even greater. We need a new era of service—not an effort for one time, one purpose, or one group—but a permanent and national endeavor. For America now, service is not just an option, but an obligation of citizenship."
Kerry, John. "A New Era of National Service." Manchester, New Hampshire. May 19, 2003. http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0519.html

224 . "And the ethic of service should not just begin when high school ends. So my proposal also calls for a bold new program of High School Service, which will make service and civics a requirement in every secondary school in the nation in exchange for the federal funding the government provides. And local communities will make the decisions on how to get this done."

[Peter]

According to dictionary.com:

Slavery =  The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

Its more than just involuntary servitude to be in slavery, you are also the property of somebody/something else. The state in committing people to hard labour sentences doesn't commit them into slavery because that would suggest that the state owns the convict and therefore is able to be bought and sold like plywood.

There is a marked difference and when viewing the 13th it is important to consider that involuntary servitude and slavery are not equivalent concepts: Involuntary servitude still occurs today as punishment for crimes, but slavery does not.

[David S]

For those of you who support Kerry's plan for national service, you will be happy to know that your ball and chain can now be provided in a variety of designer finishes. You can select from the traditional black iron, chrome plated steel, stainless steel, polished or antique brass, and for the truly fashion conscious slave, Titanium.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, we have some extreme bigots on here.

[A18]

Wow, we have some extreme bigots on here.

Bigots against criminals?

[J.R. Brown]

Wow, we have some extreme bigots on here.

Bigots against criminals?

We need to reform the criminal justice system before we start enslaving them. Like why do drug offenders get more prison time then most rapists? What's the big deal about marijuana, it's less deadly than cigarettes and it chills people out.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, we have some extreme bigots on here.

Bigots against criminals?

Well, they're less bigoted than the extrreme wignuts who choose the land, job, and women options.

[angus]

land, women, and jobs.  all on the same day!? 

must be opebo.  I'm working class myself, and in any case have had only two of the three.  still, you can't dump on Hamiltonianism.  He was right about many things, not the least of which was what people would do with all this Freedom, given the chance.

Ever see "Reflections of Evil" by Damon Packard?  Yeah, I know I know, I'm always hawking that flick, as though I had some interest in its sales, but still, it touches on this very subject (among others.)

Check it out.

[MaC]

we already have partial slavery, it's called the income tax.  We have mandatory service owed to the government through heavy taxation. 

[David S]

we already have partial slavery, it's called the income tax.  We have mandatory service owed to the government through heavy taxation. 

Yes the tax is bad enough but those comments by Kerry  are really disturbing. He thinks government has the right to make servants of the American people. What's even more disturbing is that most Democrats seem to think its a great idea.