Should women have the right to vote?

[Ebowed]

No, this thread isn't a joke.  I once read a quote by the late Georgia Senator Richard B. Russell where, when asked if the amendment that gave women the right to vote should be repealed, he said no, but had he been a Senator at the time he would have voted against it, presumably because he saw it as an invasion on the sovreignty of the states.

You get to vote for both your personal prefence (I doubt many will vote no) as well as if you think it should have been up the states, rather than a constitutional amendment.

[senatortombstone]

No, this thread isn't a joke.  I once read a quote by the late Georgia Senator Richard B. Russell where, when asked if the amendment that gave women the right to vote should be repealed, he said no, but had he been a Senator at the time he would have voted against it, presumably because he saw it as an invasion on the sovreignty of the states.

You get to vote for both your personal prefence (I doubt many will vote no) as well as if you think it should have been up the states, rather than a constitutional amendment.

I voted n, no matter what.  If women were not alowed to vote then so many liberal democratic issues like abortion would dissapear.  Plus I think it would be a real blow to organizations like NOW.

[Ebowed]

I voted n, no matter what.  If women were not alowed to vote then so many liberal democratic issues like abortion would dissapear.  Plus I think it would be a real blow to organizations like NOW.

Assuming this isn't a joke post, it's very bad logic.  The percentage of women who are pro-choice is about the same as the percentage of men.  And the loss of women voters would be a blow to almost any organization, institution, or religion.

[dazzleman]

At this point, this thread can only really be taken as a joke.

Of course women should unconditionally be able to vote.  It should not be left up to the state.  Sen. Russell no doubt also believed it should be left up to states whether blacks were treated as human beings.  This is a right that should be fully protected at the federal level.

[A18]

Women do not have the constitutional right to vote, nor does anyone else, thankfully.

I fully agree with the fine senator from Georgia.

[David S]

Women do not have the constitutional right to vote, nor does anyone else, thankfully.

I fully agree with the fine senator from Georgia.

Did I miss something? Was the 19th amendment repealed while I was sleeping?

[A18]

The 19th amendment does not give women the right to vote.

[David S]

The 19th amendment does not give women the right to vote.

Well lets see, before the 19 amendment women could not vote, at least not in all states. After it they could.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt19.html

Nineteenth Amendment--Women's Suffrage Rights
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

[[Page 1971]]


                         WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE RIGHTS

                               __________

                          NINETEENTH AMENDMENT


  Section 1. The right of the citizens of the United States to vote
shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on
account of sex.
  Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by
appropriate legislation.

 

[A18]

The amendment mandates that no citizen be denied the right to vote on account of sex, but it does not mandate that any citizen be given the right to vote on account of sex.

[PBrunsel]

Had I lived in 1919 I probably would have opposed women voting, seeing most of Iowa did and in 1920 less than 20 percent of all women voters voted in Iowa [almost all voted for Harding.]

Now I say that everyone has the right to vote once granted in the Constituion. To hold women back from voting is both un-Democratic and unconsitutional.

[A18]

No it's not.

If Iowa wants to require that every citizen own 1/5 of an acre of land to vote, it can do that. According to your logic, it wouldn't be able to do that, because women you say have the unconditional right to vote.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If Iowa wants to require that every citizen own 1/5 of an acre of land to vote

luckily no state in the country is moronic enough to think this is a good idea.

[PBrunsel]

No it's not.

If Iowa wants to require that every citizen own 1/5 of an acre of land to vote, it can do that. According to your logic, it wouldn't be able to do that, because women you say have the unconditional right to vote.

Well since it passed narrowly in the Senate, the 19th amendment really gives women the right to vote. Now yourself being a Constitutionalist you probably have some way to disprove this, but I don't like to argue the Constituion so I will stop right now.

[John Dibble]

Women do not have the constitutional right to vote, nor does anyone else, thankfully.

Section 1. The right of the citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

This implies to me that there is a constitutional right to vote. Also, the right to vote is mentioned in Amemdment XIV Section 2, Amendment XV Section 1, Amendment XXIV Section 1, and Amendment XXVI Section 1. If there is indeed no constitutional right to vote, the Constitution is certainly wrong for mentioning the 'right to vote' so much.

[A18]

That is not a constitutional right. It is a state-granted right, and the Constitution is defining a criteria that can not be used for granting that right.

[John Dibble]

That is not a constitutional right. It is a state-granted right, and the Constitution is defining a criteria that can not be used for granting that right.

There are federal elections, you know. And being under federal jurisdiction, the right to vote would be federal.

[A18]

No it's not.

If Iowa wants to require that every citizen own 1/5 of an acre of land to vote, it can do that. According to your logic, it wouldn't be able to do that, because women you say have the unconditional right to vote.

Well since it passed narrowly in the Senate, the 19th amendment really gives women the right to vote. Now yourself being a Constitutionalist you probably have some way to disprove this, but I don't like to argue the Constituion so I will stop right now.

What I'm saying is, they can't be denied the right to vote on the basis of their sex, just like men can't, but they can be denied the right to vote based on other things, as long as those limitations also apply to men. So, crime, age, etc.

[A18]

That is not a constitutional right. It is a state-granted right, and the Constitution is defining a criteria that can not be used for granting that right.

There are federal elections, you know. And being under federal jurisdiction, the right to vote would be federal.

Congress can impose uniform voting standards for federal elections, yes, but then it's a congressional right, not a constitutional right.

The Constitution never gives anyone the right to vote for anything. It only lays out standards that can not be used in determining the right to vote.

[John Dibble]

That is not a constitutional right. It is a state-granted right, and the Constitution is defining a criteria that can not be used for granting that right.

There are federal elections, you know. And being under federal jurisdiction, the right to vote would be federal.

Congress can impose uniform voting standards for federal elections, yes, but then it's a congressional right, not a constitutional right.

The Constitution never gives anyone the right to vote for anything. It only lays out standards that can not be used in determining the right to vote.

Since the right to vote is mentioned, I see a constitutional right to vote. If you disagree, fine, but I doubt it would hold.

[Richard]

Yes, women should be allowed to vote.  However, I do believe this is a State issue, and I don't like that amendment.

[Gabu]

John: you need to remember who you're talking to.  He probably thinks that the idea of having elected officials is unconstitutional.

[A18]

By that logic, there was no need for a 19th amendment, because the 15th amendment also mentioned the right to vote.

Gabu, John: do four year old citizens have the right to vote, then?

[A18]

Hell, actually the 14th also mentions the right to vote.

And yet, it goes on to specifically say what happens when that right to vote is denied for any reason other than crime: those people are excluded from apportionment.

So clearly, mentioning the "right to vote" does not confer universal suffrage upon the general citizenry.

[John Dibble]

By that logic, there was no need for a 19th amendment, because the 15th amendment also mentioned the right to vote.

Gabu, John: do four year old citizens have the right to vote, then?

The states can grant the right to those less than 18 years of age, however the constition specifically states the right can not be abridged for those 18 and over on that basis. The right to vote exists inherently, at least as I see it implied in the constitutiona.. It can still be abridged on the account of age below 18, as I also view as implied by the constitution(otherwise why would they specify an age?).

[Gabu]

By that logic, there was no need for a 19th amendment, because the 15th amendment also mentioned the right to vote.

Gabu, John: do four year old citizens have the right to vote, then?

Here's the relevent part of the nineteenth amendment again:

The right of the citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Essentially, I perceive this as saying that if a man has the right to vote on account of some preset condition (e.g, reaching 18 years of age), then a woman who also fulfills that condition must also be given the right to vote.  It basically is saying that if men can vote, then women in the same situation must also be allowed to vote.  Unless you think that nobody has the right to vote, I can't see how you don't see that this is giving women the right to vote.