Plan to split California into 6 states advances
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  Plan to split California into 6 states advances
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Author Topic: Plan to split California into 6 states advances  (Read 32677 times)
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2014, 08:38:32 AM »

Seems to me that the upshot here would be to concentrate representation a bit in Silicon Valley (very slightly in Central California too), at the expense of the rest of the state (especially Northern California and Jefferson). At the present population per representative in California, Silicon Valley would have about a half fewer representatives (that is, one half of one representative fewer) as it would have under this plan. Northern California and Jefferson would each have about a third more (one third of one representative) presently than under this plan.

I know talking about fractional representatives is a little abstract, but it's a real thing that would ever so slightly concentrate the representation of the state a little more in the areas Draper prefers.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2014, 08:50:38 AM »

Democrats would be hurt in the electoral college but would get a big boost in the Senate. I like this plan.

How would they get a huge boost in the Senate?  They already have two senators from CA as it is.  Of the new states created by this plan, two voted for Romney, and one of the Obama states only narrowly went to him by a margin of a couple of points (in a race that he won nationally).  So why would this mean a net gain of more than 1 or 2 Senators for the Democrats over the status quo?
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
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« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2014, 08:57:46 AM »

Democrats would be hurt in the electoral college but would get a big boost in the Senate. I like this plan.

How would they get a huge boost in the Senate?  They already have two senators from CA as it is.  Of the new states created by this plan, two voted for Romney, and one of the Obama states only narrowly went to him by a margin of a couple of points (in a race that he won nationally).  So why would this mean a net gain of more than 1 or 2 Senators for the Democrats over the status quo?


Exactly right. Even if the net gain is 5 Democratic and 5 Republican senate seats, totally even, that slides the balance of power in the Senate (as currently constituted) toward Republicans from Democrats. Right now it's 55-45, and it takes 60 votes to break a filibuster. With 110 seats, with the extra 10 split equally, it'd be 50-60, with 66 votes needed to break a filibuster. Currently Democrats control 55% of the chamber, and with an even split in additional Senators in this plan, they'd control 54.5% of the chamber.

There are systemic changes that should take massive priority over this.
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°Leprechaun
tmcusa2
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« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2014, 09:08:17 AM »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/15/six-californias-tim-draper/12661161/

this is a good link with the current population of each of the six 'states'

I would vote no, but I don't live in California and if all six states had a yes majority I would say that would be enough to approve it. It would have to be approved by all the US, but I say yes if the people of California(s) want.

But why not simply divide it into two states, north and south?
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tmcusa2
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« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2014, 09:26:16 AM »
« Edited: July 15, 2014, 10:06:06 AM by Buddha »

There have been many secession proposals in CA and the US over the years.

The only sucessful one was WV.
 ...in order not to secede they had to secede...
(from VA rather than from US)

Jefferson is also a proposed state constituting southern OR counties as
well as CA counties.

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Sol
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« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2014, 09:37:24 AM »

California should probably split, but this is like the worst plan possible to do so.
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Badger
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« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2014, 10:08:47 AM »
« Edited: July 15, 2014, 10:12:07 AM by Badger »

California splitting is grossly unnecessary, and based on silly ideological beefs more than any practical 'need'. The state has proven itself to HARDLY be ungovernable, regardless of whether their leadership is competent or not.

I'd further note that any act of succession should require, even before getting to the legislature and Congress, some super-majority margin to pass, like at least 60%, maybe 2/3. It is a huge and dramatic act that shouldn't be followed on a mere 50% + 1 in a given election.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2014, 11:30:11 AM »

This is dumb.
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2014, 11:34:43 AM »

We know this isn't going to pass anyway. That said, I would be interested to see how things like Medical and the UC system would be dealt with in a state split.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 12:58:11 PM »

There have been many secession proposals in CA and the US over the years.

The only sucessful one was WV.
 ...in order not to secede they had to secede...
(from VA rather than from US)

Jefferson is also a proposed state constituting southern OR counties as
well as CA counties.

You forgot Maine and Kentucky, which originally were part of Massachusetts and Virginia respectively.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2014, 12:58:21 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/15/six-californias-tim-draper/12661161/

this is a good link with the current population of each of the six 'states'

I would vote no, but I don't live in California and if all six states had a yes majority I would say that would be enough to approve it. It would have to be approved by all the US, but I say yes if the people of California(s) want.

But why not simply divide it into two states, north and south?

Because the key point of this plan is to deliver power to Silicon Valley, not to make any coherent sense.
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°Leprechaun
tmcusa2
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« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2014, 01:08:49 PM »

There have been many secession proposals in CA and the US over the years.

The only sucessful one was WV.
 ...in order not to secede they had to secede...
(from VA rather than from US)

Jefferson is also a proposed state constituting southern OR counties as
well as CA counties.

You forgot Maine and Kentucky, which originally were part of Massachusetts and Virginia respectively.

thanks for pointing that out.. so there is a precedent for seceding from a state, but not from the US itself.
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°Leprechaun
tmcusa2
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« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2014, 01:09:24 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/15/six-californias-tim-draper/12661161/

this is a good link with the current population of each of the six 'states'

I would vote no, but I don't live in California and if all six states had a yes majority I would say that would be enough to approve it. It would have to be approved by all the US, but I say yes if the people of California(s) want.

But why not simply divide it into two states, north and south?

Because the key point of this plan is to deliver power to Silicon Valley, not to make any coherent sense.
and hopefully the voters will see that
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2014, 01:17:42 PM »

I'm sure cost-of-living-pressed minorities in the East Bay and San Francisco will just love the idea that "Silicon Valley" should be the official name of a state that includes the bulk of the Bay Area.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2014, 01:36:23 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/15/six-californias-tim-draper/12661161/

this is a good link with the current population of each of the six 'states'

I would vote no, but I don't live in California and if all six states had a yes majority I would say that would be enough to approve it. It would have to be approved by all the US, but I say yes if the people of California(s) want.

But why not simply divide it into two states, north and south?

Because the key point of this plan is to deliver power to Silicon Valley, not to make any coherent sense.

On the radio this morning they had the proponent of this talking about how it would increase competition between states if you could travel 45 minutes and be in a different state. So basically the idea is to precipitate a race to the bottom.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2014, 01:36:48 PM »

Yeah, the shameful dismemberment of the Bay Area is the most unacceptable thing in this pathetic attempt at gerrymander.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2014, 01:46:55 PM »
« Edited: July 15, 2014, 01:55:42 PM by Del Tachi »

Bush would win Southern California with 56.1% of the vote in 2004.  Wow. 
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RI
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« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2014, 02:31:19 PM »

LA County and Orange County should not be in separate states.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2014, 02:39:16 PM »

LA County and Orange County should not be in separate states.

They were actually once the same county until Orange split off in 1889.
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« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2014, 03:28:55 PM »

We know this isn't going to pass anyway. That said, I would be interested to see how things like Medical and the UC system would be dealt with in a state split.

There'd be

University of Silicon Valley:
Berkeley
San Francisco
Santa Cruz

University of North California (Davis)

University of Central California (Merced)

University of West California:
Santa Barbara
Los Angeles

University of South California:
Irvine
Riverside
San Diego

and nothing for Jefferson


LOLs for the fact that none of the 3 University of Silicon Valley campuses would be in silicon valley.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2014, 04:44:27 PM »

This is a complete waste of time because it's unnecessary.  Why does California need to be split anyway?
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IceSpear
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« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2014, 07:09:40 PM »

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Illuminati Blood Drinker
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« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2014, 07:58:37 PM »

This is a complete waste of time because it's unnecessary.  Why does California need to be split anyway?
Because, as a whole, it's big and very solid Democratic.

Split it up and the rug's pulled out from under the Dems.
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Aliens
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« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2014, 12:15:35 AM »

Like almost every current proposal for splitting/combining states, it might sound good on paper but it's unnecessary at the moment.  Even if it had overwhelming public support, it seems like there still would be a few problems while implementing it and making the transition.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2014, 12:31:46 AM »

Like almost every current proposal for splitting/combining states, it might sound good on paper but it's unnecessary at the moment.  Even if it had overwhelming public support, it seems like there still would be a few problems while implementing it and making the transition.

In this particular case, it doesn't even really sound good on paper. This thing has so many problems it's unreal, but as is often the case in this country, any rich dope with a bad idea can buy it onto a ballot.
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