SENATE BILL: Welfare Restoration Act (Failed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: TNF

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to begin advocating for this.

[TNF]

The "welfare reform" policies of the Clinton administration were a step in the wrong direction and have shown themselves to be nothing more than an updated version of the old time "Poor Laws" which once victimized those at the bottom of the economic pyramid centuries ago. It is high time the Atlasian government corrected these failed politics of the past and move back toward a more humane welfare regime.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

[DC Al Fine]

Two questions for TNF:

1) Isn't there already a guaranteed minimum income program in Atlasia?

2) If so, doesn't it render all welfare programs irrelevant?

[President Tyrion]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

Correlation =/= Causation

[President Tyrion]

Two questions for TNF:

1) Isn't there already a guaranteed minimum income program in Atlasia?

2) If so, doesn't it render all welfare programs irrelevant?

I know this is for TNF, but:

1) Yes
2) No. Basic income is optional, and you can still opt for traditional aid if you qualify.

[DC Al Fine]

Two questions for TNF:

1) Isn't there already a guaranteed minimum income program in Atlasia?

2) If so, doesn't it render all welfare programs irrelevant?

I know this is for TNF, but:

1) Yes
2) No. Basic income is optional, and you can still opt for traditional aid if you qualify.

Could you elaborate?

[President Tyrion]

Two questions for TNF:

1) Isn't there already a guaranteed minimum income program in Atlasia?

2) If so, doesn't it render all welfare programs irrelevant?

I know this is for TNF, but:

1) Yes
2) No. Basic income is optional, and you can still opt for traditional aid if you qualify.

Could you elaborate?

Here's the law we just passed on the subject:

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[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I need to read the actual Nixcome law, but doesnt it really render welfare and even minimum wage almost irrelevant? If so, maybe we need to explore some bigger changes in the future.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Correlation =/= Causation

Even though we cannot make claims of proof, that is no excuse to ignore what evidence we have. At the very least, the introduction of welfare reform did not make for any detectable increase in poverty.

[President Tyrion]

I need to read the actual Nixcome law, but doesnt it really render welfare and even minimum wage almost irrelevant? If so, maybe we need to explore some bigger changes in the future.

Only if the vast majority of the public starts switching over should we consider forcing everyone to abandon traditional aid.

Correlation =/= Causation

Even though we cannot make claims of proof, that is no excuse to ignore what evidence we have. At the very least, the introduction of welfare reform did not make for any detectable increase in poverty.

No one is ignoring anything. I'm just pointing out that TNF could still be right when he says:

The "welfare reform" policies of the Clinton administration were a step in the wrong direction and have shown themselves to be nothing more than an updated version of the old time "Poor Laws" which once victimized those at the bottom of the economic pyramid centuries ago. It is high time the Atlasian government corrected these failed politics of the past and move back toward a more humane welfare regime.

The graphs certainly do not disprove that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

Correlation =/= Causation

Couldn't the same be said of evidence supporting TNF's assertions though?

[President Tyrion]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

Correlation =/= Causation

Couldn't the same be said of evidence supporting TNF's assertions though?

Possibly....Things that happen to the economy are rather hard to prove, hence the various wildly differing schools of thought.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Correlation =/= Causation

Couldn't the same be said of evidence supporting TNF's assertions though?

Has he provided any?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I guess my next question is, do we need two separate entitlement programs, or should we consider, in the future, expanding Nixcome and sort of phasing out welfare?

[TNF]

I do not think that phasing out welfare programs in favor of Nixcome alone is a good idea. Nixcome should be an addition to our existing welfare state, not a whole scale replacement of it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

Correlation =/= Causation

Couldn't the same be said of evidence supporting TNF's assertions though?

Possibly....Things that happen to the economy are rather hard to prove, hence the various wildly differing schools of thought.

So should we just start flipping coins here or something man?

[President Tyrion]

Child poverty declined significantly during the Clinton years, which one would not expect if welfare reform were an unmitigated disaster for poor people.  This decline was especially marked for single parent families.


(note the last part of this graph may not be accurate for Atlasia)

Perhaps there are changes to be made but there is enough evidence suggesting it has contributed to reductions in poverty that we shouldn't just get rid of it.

Also we have a Basic Income program now as an option for those who can't access adequate help through TANF and other welfare programs.

Correlation =/= Causation

Couldn't the same be said of evidence supporting TNF's assertions though?

Possibly....Things that happen to the economy are rather hard to prove, hence the various wildly differing schools of thought.

So should we just start flipping coins here or something man?

Well, the point is that we're not going to prove things either way. It's going to have to be personal belief, regardless.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So are there any amendments to this or are we done here?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A Final Vote is now open on the underlying legislation, Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[DC Al Fine]

Nay

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Nay

[Goldwater]

NAY

[President Tyrion]

Aye