Federal Judge rules NSA phone surveillance is lawful

[Lief 🗽]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/27/22072205-new-york-federal-judge-rules-nsa-phone-surveillance-is-legal

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[Franzl]

Land of the free.

[Marokai Backbeat]

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In other words: Pure speculation and '9/11 changed everything.'

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Joke ruling

[bedstuy]

Kind of a strange decision at first blush if you ask me.  The judge didn't rule that the NSA program was lawful after a trial, this was a motion to dismiss the ACLU lawsuit.

So, the judge is saying, accepting all of the factual assertions of the ACLU as true, there is no way for the ACLU to prove that the NSA program is unconstitutional or illegal.  I haven't read the opinion, but that seems surprising. 

[courts]

Kind of a strange decision at first blush if you ask me.  The judge didn't rule that the NSA program was lawful after a trial, this was a motion to dismiss the ACLU lawsuit.

So, the judge is saying, accepting all of the factual assertions of the ACLU as true, there is no way for the ACLU to prove that the NSA program is unconstitutional or illegal.  I haven't read the opinion, but that seems surprising. 

how is it surprising? we've already seen judges rule that you can't sue the government for secretly  spying on you because you have no proof... because it's secret spying, essentially. this sort of bizarre catch-22 type logic is par the course.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If this had been a Bush appointee, it would've been mentioned by now...

[MaxQue]

If this had been a Bush appointee, it would've been mentioned by now...

It's a Clinton appointee.

[minionofmidas]

And the Egyptian government has officially ruled the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization.

[TJ in Oregon]

Even if he ruled it was unlawful, would it even matter? Wouldn't the NSA just say they've stopped and keep doing whatever they want regardless of whether or not it's legal like they have been all along?

[badgate]

If this had been a Bush appointee, it would've been mentioned by now...

It's a Clinton appointee.

The sins of moderate heroism will always come back to haunt us.

[bedstuy]

If this had been a Bush appointee, it would've been mentioned by now...

It's a Clinton appointee.

The sins of moderate heroism will always come back to haunt us.

The politics of the judge should be entirely irrelevant here.  A lower court judge follows the Supreme Court and Circuit 4th Amendment precedent.  They don't have the freedom to decide what they think the law should be. 

[badgate]

If this had been a Bush appointee, it would've been mentioned by now...

It's a Clinton appointee.

The sins of moderate heroism will always come back to haunt us.

The politics of the judge should be entirely irrelevant here.  A lower court judge follows the Supreme Court and Circuit 4th Amendment precedent.  They don't have the freedom to decide what they think the law should be. 

Oh brother...

[Antonio the Sixth]

I think he mistakenly added an "l".

[bedstuy]

I think he mistakenly added an "l".

Anyone can just say, it's all politics.  I don't agree at all, especially when we're talking about district courts and not the Supreme Court, but it's one of those arguments that's pointless because it's about the interior motives of decision-makers in complicated issues. 

At the very least, you have to agree that the 4th Amendment precedent about the NSA is very thin and unclear.  Until the Supreme Court clears this up in twenty years or so, the proposition that this program is constitutional under current precedent is clearly supportable and can't just be rejected out of hand.

[The Free North]

Not happy with this ruling











*no NSA raid on me please*

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I think he mistakenly added an "l".

No, surveillance is spelled with two els.

[King]

Not happy with this ruling











*no NSA raid on me please*

Could you lean a bit closer to your computer's microphone and express your disdain of the United States Federal Government orally, please?

[IceSpear]

So exactly where do NSA supporters draw the line?

[ElectionsGuy]

unbelievable

[Link]

The forum is populated by hacks.  I love how when one guy we have never heard of says it has stopped zero attacks that number is accepted like the Word of God.  But when this judge says, actually it is useful we should just summarily dismiss it out of hand.

Nice.  I don't know who is right but the forums behavior exposes the hackishness.

[minionofmidas]

It's not as if this judge had any information you don't, or pretended to.

[Link]

It's not as if this judge had any information you don't, or pretended to.

I don't pretend to have a law degree, years on the Federal bunch and spent hours analyzing cases pertaining to this matter.  Look the other thread was started because people found one person they never heard of that agreed with them and said that is proof the NSA surveillance is unlawful.  Now they find another guy that they have never heard of that says it is lawful and all of a sudden his opinion is wrong and doesn't count.  This is pure hackery.

[TNF]

Hilarious that this government expects us to follow the law when it clearly won't.

[Link]

Hilarious that this government expects us to follow the law when it clearly won't.

A federal judge just told the government what they are doing is lawful.  Did you not read the OP?