Why do modern cartoons suck so much? [my very first nostalgic rant]

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

You should never cry. Ever.

[Platypus]

Cartoons aimed at 5-13 year olds have always, always sucked.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Antonio, I looked it up and it seems like the Italian Sailor Moon dub, while technically well done, is heavily censored, though not as much or as blatantly as the English dub. A lot of the lesbian and transgender themes of the original, for example, were actively disallowed from making it into other languages (to the extent possible; a lot of the English censorship, at least, was unbelievably clumsily done), and some of them are pretty important to an understanding of what's going on. Also Rei is way different in the anime compared to the manga and manga!Rei is generally considered a better-written character, but that's true of every language.

True, I did not consider that. Of course it should be expected that Italian TV would censor (though, interestingly considering everything, it tends to be a bit less prudish than others, at least from my experience). I'll go for the original subtitled version, then - which is probably also easier to find on the internet. I probably don't have the patience or interest to read the original manga, though. From my modest experience, I haven't much enjoyed the manga format.

All right. Be warned that it does take a while to really pick up, although the character dynamics are still a ton of fun even early on.

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Be warned that it's really long, but then again, Sailor Moon is even longer. Also be warned that the presentation of politics is more than a little pessimistic and implicitly critical of liberal democracy, although it's implicitly critical of pretty much everything else too and is in general nuanced enough to not come across as unreasonable in its conservatism.

[King]

Cartoons on the TV in the 2000s were pretty awful.  Adventure Time and Regular Show are pretty watchable now.  Phineas and Ferb is kinda fun.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Cartoons when I was a kid were superb......my memory of the specifics are foggy, but man I had fun watching them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'll have a look at all this, and see if I am interested enough to watch through all of it. I got the sense that these anime sagas tend to be pretty long, and that's indeed a bit discouraging. But who knows.

Note that it might take a while for me to even start watching. I have many things to watch in my schedule and time, as always, is the scarcest resource.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'll have a look at all this, and see if I am interested enough to watch through all of it. I got the sense that these anime sagas tend to be pretty long, and that's indeed a bit discouraging. But who knows.

Not all of them! Some of my favorites clock in at around eleven to thirteen or twenty-four to twenty-six half-hour episodes. Serial Experiments Lain, for instance, is very short, although it's not what many people would call very accessible. That one depends on how you feel about the cyberpunk subgenre.

(Note: Everything General Mung Beans and I are discussing so far is from the nineties. I promise I'll list some more recent recommendations later this evening.)

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'll have a look at all this, and see if I am interested enough to watch through all of it. I got the sense that these anime sagas tend to be pretty long, and that's indeed a bit discouraging. But who knows.

Not all of them! Some of my favorites clock in at around eleven to thirteen or twenty-four to twenty-six half-hour episodes. Serial Experiments Lain, for instance, is very short, although it's not what many people would call very accessible. That one depends on how you feel about the cyberpunk subgenre.

I actually read extensively about Serial Experiments Lain on TV Tropes, and though I found it interesting in many respects, I concluded that it was probably too unsettling (even at 20, I am still far too easily "creeped out" at certain particular things) and had too intricate a plot (I have difficulties with works where I cannot perceive a fully coherent storylines) for my tastes.

[H. Ross Peron]

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Be warned that it's really long, but then again, Sailor Moon is even longer. Also be warned that the presentation of politics is more than a little pessimistic and implicitly critical of liberal democracy, although it's implicitly critical of pretty much everything else too and is in general nuanced enough to not come across as unreasonable in its conservatism.

On the other hand, most of the negatively portrayed politicians in the series are neocon/warmonger types (despite being made before the War on Terror) while the positively portrayed ones are seemingly more liberal.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

On the other hand, most of the negatively portrayed politicians in the series are neocon/warmonger types (despite being made before the War on Terror) while the positively portrayed ones are seemingly more liberal.

True. One could say that the leanings of the series on issues that one might encounter within a political system are implicitly liberal whereas its attitude towards political systems and state structures themselves is more tinged with pessimistic conservatism. Or that's my reading of it, anyway.

[courts]

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

Really? I've always thought that the contrast with the absolutely horrendous, franchise-driven Pokemon cartoon was striking. It had a serious storyline (with real stakes, as opposed to that "I wanna be da best!!" crap), a good deal of character development, plenty of moments of awesome... Digimon is probably one of the cartoons which most made my childhood.

the original pokemon in a lot of ways was basically adventure time 1.0. pre teen kid and his intelligent animal friend interacting with other colorful characters in a post apocalyptic setting. also pokemon has a lot of male characters that are effeminate or cross dress while adventure time has two implied lesbians in the main cast so similar kind of lgbt thing going on. also gary

[Antonio the Sixth]

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

Really? I've always thought that the contrast with the absolutely horrendous, franchise-driven Pokemon cartoon was striking. It had a serious storyline (with real stakes, as opposed to that "I wanna be da best!!" crap), a good deal of character development, plenty of moments of awesome... Digimon is probably one of the cartoons which most made my childhood.

the original pokemon in a lot of ways was basically adventure time 1.0. pre teen kid and his intelligent animal friend interacting with other colorful characters in a post apocalyptic setting. also pokemon has a lot of male characters that are effeminate or cross dress while adventure time has two implied lesbians in the main cast so similar kind of lgbt thing going on. also gary

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Pokemon here...

[courts]

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

Really? I've always thought that the contrast with the absolutely horrendous, franchise-driven Pokemon cartoon was striking. It had a serious storyline (with real stakes, as opposed to that "I wanna be da best!!" crap), a good deal of character development, plenty of moments of awesome... Digimon is probably one of the cartoons which most made my childhood.

the original pokemon in a lot of ways was basically adventure time 1.0. pre teen kid and his intelligent animal friend interacting with other colorful characters in a post apocalyptic setting. also pokemon has a lot of male characters that are effeminate or cross dress while adventure time has two implied lesbians in the main cast so similar kind of lgbt thing going on. also gary

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Pokemon here...

no it is the same pokemon. we're talking about a franchise where it's canon that pokemon used to have relationships with humans in the past (before things got destroyed, seriously i'm not making this up) and that some pokemon like hypno are known to kidnap children. let that sink in.

also notice the conspicuous lack of men on the show. characters rarely have fathers (other than brock's deadbeat dad), normally just mothers. there's not a lot of men around in general that aren't teenagers or old. it's another subtle little clue that something bad happened in the not-distant past again.

[Associate Justice PiT]

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

Really? I've always thought that the contrast with the absolutely horrendous, franchise-driven Pokemon cartoon was striking. It had a serious storyline (with real stakes, as opposed to that "I wanna be da best!!" crap), a good deal of character development, plenty of moments of awesome... Digimon is probably one of the cartoons which most made my childhood.

the original pokemon in a lot of ways was basically adventure time 1.0. pre teen kid and his intelligent animal friend interacting with other colorful characters in a post apocalyptic setting. also pokemon has a lot of male characters that are effeminate or cross dress while adventure time has two implied lesbians in the main cast so similar kind of lgbt thing going on. also gary

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Pokemon here...

no it is the same pokemon. we're talking about a franchise where it's canon that pokemon used to have relationships with humans in the past (before things got destroyed, seriously i'm not making this up) and that some pokemon like hypno are known to kidnap children. let that sink in.

also notice the conspicuous lack of men on the show. characters rarely have fathers (other than brock's deadbeat dad), normally just mothers. there's not a lot of men around in general that aren't teenagers or old. it's another subtle little clue that something bad happened in the not-distant past again.

     Also, in Red/Blue, Lt. Surge comments that his electric pokemon saved him in the war.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The problem with these clues is that they are too subtle and little for me (or most normal people) to give a damn. They aren't in any way relevant to the main plot and thus can't give any interest to a pathetically empty storyline.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Have you seen Axe Cop, perchance?