Kentuckians are welfare queens and they're in denial about it

[henster]

The care about JOBS and the coal industry is collapsing they will vote for whichever party promises to save it. But the truth is coal can't be saved and the region will be devastated if they don't diversify their economy. Kentucky has done this successfully to an extent you see a lot of health care companies based there but WV has not and they are suffering. Ultimately the whole region will need to move away from coal completely.

[DINGO Joe]

Well, Louisville and Lexington (and NKY suburbs) have never been dependent on coal so it's no surprise that they're diversified.  However, every effort at diversifying EKY has failed, same for SW VA and about the only success WV has had is Robert Byrd dragging in every federal job he could.

Why do they fail?  poor education, poor health (high disability and drug abuse rates), poor geography, and frequently poor attitudes.

[DC Al Fine]

I am not interested in deriding these people as "ignorant rubes", because I am interested in treating everyone with respect.  But don't tell me that I need to compromise on my principles, or on the well-established scientific facts.

That's fine. The problem only occurs when people adopt rhetoric/policies that X doesn't like and bitches about X not voting for them.

[IceSpear]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

The care about JOBS and the coal industry is collapsing they will vote for whichever party promises to save it. But the truth is coal can't be saved and the region will be devastated if they don't diversify their economy. Kentucky has done this successfully to an extent you see a lot of health care companies based there but WV has not and they are suffering. Ultimately the whole region will need to move away from coal completely.

Kentucky has arguably had better long-term leadership over the years. Martha Layne Collins really set the pace as governor in the '80s in aggressively promoting foreign investment into Kentucky; the creation of an Appalachian Detroit in Kentucky is really her most significant legacy. Dramatically increasing access to healthcare among Kentuckians will be Steve Beshear's legacy.

West Virginia, by contrast, has never produced effective administrators and long-term planners. Their "good" politicians are really only good at taking money from the rest of the country and spending it on bridges and roads they name after themselves. At the state level, Arch Moore, Bob Wise, Joe Manchin...none of them are anything to write home about and they certainly would never show up on any kind of "America's Best Governors" list.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Kentucky has arguably had better long-term leadership over the years.

With the exception of Ernie "Hey Bert" Fletcher.

[henster]

Fracking could provide short-term relief for these Appalachia but in the long run they will still have same problems. I can WV attracting a lot of high tech start ups and stuff if they would just invest more in education and stuff but both parties there don't seem have any solutions. The Reps there are just using the whole "War on Coal" to gain power and Dems are desperately trying to still paint themselves as pro-coal as possible, it's a race to the bottom. KY is definitely  better off than WV at this point

[DC Al Fine]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

[7,052,770]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

The GOP wants poor rural whites to keep shooting each other, cement them into poverty forever by denying reproductive freedom, and keep them tied into a dying industry?

[DINGO Joe]

Honestly, I don't know what to do with the CAPP coal region.  They aren't going to get high tech jobs.  They aren't well sited for distribution type jobs.  Pollution limits any potential for agriculture or tourism. 

[DC Al Fine]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

The GOP wants poor rural whites to keep shooting each other, cement them into poverty forever by denying reproductive freedom, and keep them tied into a dying industry?

Harry, this is a serious site. Quit playing Spin Doctor Barbie and address my argument.

[IceSpear]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

So who cares if they and their children go hungry die early due to lack of healthcare, as long as they have their guns and stop zygotes from getting terminated?

Clearly the people of Appalachia are focused on the most important issues in their lives.

[Sol]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

So who cares if they and their children go hungry die early due to lack of healthcare, as long as they have their guns and stop zygotes from getting terminated?

Clearly the people of Appalachia are focused on the most important issues in their lives.

The issue is that Dems don't reliably support anything that would alleviate poverty, so why bother voting for a party you disagree with on everything else?

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Fracking could provide short-term relief for these Appalachia but in the long run they will still have same problems. I can WV attracting a lot of high tech start ups and stuff if they would just invest more in education and stuff but both parties there don't seem have any solutions. The Reps there are just using the whole "War on Coal" to gain power and Dems are desperately trying to still paint themselves as pro-coal as possible, it's a race to the bottom. KY is definitely  better off than WV at this point

One of the dismal facts about regional economic development is that it rarely gets any better; poor countries can become rich over time, but the poorest region of a country is almost guaranteed to remain the poorest while the richest regions remain the richest. More labor and capital mobility and a common currency make it easier for labor and capital to leave poor regions and give it no reason to relocate there.

Go to MIT or Stanford and ask how many of those people would be interested in moving to West Virginia to work at a startup technology firm and be paid 10% more than what firms in Silicon Valley or the Research Triangle are offering. You aren't going to get many hands. They don't want to live in a state where they will be by far the most educated people and will have a hard time finding similar people to socialize with and marry and live alongside. They don't want to live in a state where there's nothing to do but hunt, fish and ride ATVs when they don't do any of those things. It's the whole Richard Florida/Creative Class effect.

West Virginians themselves aren't intrinsically less intelligent than the rest of us. But the ones who do have the interest and capability to work in profitable industries like technology or finance are going to go to places where they can do that (outside West Virginia); and the family and friends they leave behind are the ones with nothing else going for them but mining coal and working at Wal-Mart. Other countries have their own "West Virginias." Germany has its eastern, former DDR states; Ukraine has eastern Ukraine; China has its rural provinces in the center of the country.

[DINGO Joe]

I haven't seen anyone propose a solution to alleviate their poverty.  Healthcare, food stamps, SSDI (which WV ranks 1st and KY rank 3rd) mitigate their poverty somewhat.  Republicans would like to take that away and presumably have them die.  

[IceSpear]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

So who cares if they and their children go hungry die early due to lack of healthcare, as long as they have their guns and stop zygotes from getting terminated?

Clearly the people of Appalachia are focused on the most important issues in their lives.

The issue is that Dems don't reliably support anything that would alleviate poverty, so why bother voting for a party you disagree with on everything else?

Republicans want to gut food stamps, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to privatize Medicare/Social Security, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut Medicaid and reject expansion, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut public education and financial aid, Democrats don't.

But clearly, saving the "life" of a blastula is more of a pressing issue than those. I guess I'm just too "elitist" to understand.

Edit: The real issue is that the voters never get the consequences of their vote because the national Democrats save them from their own stupidity by blocking the GOP from destroying the programs that sustain their livelihood. Give Republicans total control of the country for a decade, and even Utah and Texas will be solid D.

[7,052,770]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

The GOP wants poor rural whites to keep shooting each other, cement them into poverty forever by denying reproductive freedom, and keep them tied into a dying industry?

Harry, this is a serious site. Quit playing Spin Doctor Barbie and address my argument.

  We are discussing the idea of paying lip service to what poor rural whites think they want (Republicans) vs. actually supporting what's in their best interests, despite not selling it very well (Democrats).  Health care reform, Obama's mild "gun control" bill, pro-choice and pro-contraceptive policies, and progressing the economy of Eastern Kentucky out of yesteryear's Coal Age all meet the above criteria.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The title of this thread is exactly why liberals will continue to lose Appalachia.

TNF wins the thread. As has been said before, at least the GOP pretends to care about rural whites. The Democrats approach is "STFU about guns, coal and abortion and do what you're told you ignorant rube".

How exactly does the GOP pretend to care about rural whites?

Like I said: guns, abortion, coal.

LOL, coal is so screwed now that solar is cheaper.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What is the correct way to respond to this sort of thing?

Do you mean how Educated American Liberals ought to respond or how the Democratic Party ought to? The latter is complicated because there are now basic trust issues at work. But the former isn't so hard: don't be a cock. Basically people with gilded lives shouldn't sneer at those that struggle through life.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

But clearly, saving the "life" of a blastula is more of a pressing issue than those. I guess I'm just too "elitist" to understand.

"I AM NOT AN ELEPHANT! I AM NOT AN ANIMAL! I AM A HUMAN BEING! I AM...A...MAN!!!"

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that anyone from either party could do to stop the decline of the coal industry. Regardless of whether or not you regard it as a good thing (I tend to side with the environmentalists on this one), the fact remains that trying to prop up or save coal would be like trying to save buggy whip makers after the automobile was invented. The fact that methods of heating and electricity production exist today besides an archaic 19th century fuel is nothing something that is going to change based on any politician's agenda.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Whatever can be said about the decline of the coal industry in America or other industrialised countries - though the situation is a lot more complicated than you'd ever guess from the average interest discussion pertaining to it; this one included - there is certainly rather a lot that government can do to help areas hurt by its decline. If you think otherwise you're a Thatcherite.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Republicans want to gut food stamps, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to privatize Medicare/Social Security, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut Medicaid and reject expansion, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut public education and financial aid, Democrats don't.

But clearly, saving the "life" of a blastula is more of a pressing issue than those. I guess I'm just too "elitist" to understand.

The real issue is that the voters never get the consequences of their vote because the national Democrats save them from their own stupidity by blocking the GOP from destroying the programs that sustain their livelihood. Give Republicans total control of the country for a decade, and even Utah and Texas will be solid D.

Not so much an elitist as a materialist for whom economic well-being is the only form of well-being that matters.  But there are plenty who think otherwise.  For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?  That is why some voters will base their vote on the social issues rather than in terms of their own narrow economic self-interest.  I dare say that if you agreed with their positions on the social interests you would applaud their choice of priorities.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Republicans want to gut food stamps, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to privatize Medicare/Social Security, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut Medicaid and reject expansion, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut public education and financial aid, Democrats don't.

But clearly, saving the "life" of a blastula is more of a pressing issue than those. I guess I'm just too "elitist" to understand.

The real issue is that the voters never get the consequences of their vote because the national Democrats save them from their own stupidity by blocking the GOP from destroying the programs that sustain their livelihood. Give Republicans total control of the country for a decade, and even Utah and Texas will be solid D.

Not so much an elitist as a materialist for whom economic well-being is the only form of well-being that matters.  But there are plenty who think otherwise.  For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?  That is why some voters will base their vote on the social issues rather than in terms of their own narrow economic self-interest.  I dare say that if you agreed with their positions on the social interests you would applaud their choice of priorities.

Human beings have a hierarchy of needs. It is irrational for voters to base their interests on anything before basic economic security, which guarantees things like food, clothing, shelter and medical care. Once you reach a point where you can obtain the above things without others' assistance (be it government or private charity) and are not one paycheck or illness away from not being able to obtain them, only then do you have any business voting based on stuff like letting gay people get married or carrying concealed guns.

I once watched a documentary on PBS where they interviewed people during the '04 election which was so charged with social issues. They interviewed this family in some small town in Kansas or Missouri where the father had lost his job recently and the mother had some low-paying job supporting them and their kids; they lived in a tiny house that wasn't paid off and drove old cars and had no meaningful savings and said they were voting for Bush. And the mother said something to the effect of, "Even if we could have more money if we voted Democratic, I don't mind being poor in life. I vote Republican because I'm concerned about where I'm going to spend eternity."

[DINGO Joe]

Republicans want to gut food stamps, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to privatize Medicare/Social Security, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut Medicaid and reject expansion, Democrats don't.
Republicans want to gut public education and financial aid, Democrats don't.

But clearly, saving the "life" of a blastula is more of a pressing issue than those. I guess I'm just too "elitist" to understand.

The real issue is that the voters never get the consequences of their vote because the national Democrats save them from their own stupidity by blocking the GOP from destroying the programs that sustain their livelihood. Give Republicans total control of the country for a decade, and even Utah and Texas will be solid D.

Not so much an elitist as a materialist for whom economic well-being is the only form of well-being that matters.  But there are plenty who think otherwise.  For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?  That is why some voters will base their vote on the social issues rather than in terms of their own narrow economic self-interest.  I dare say that if you agreed with their positions on the social interests you would applaud their choice of priorities.

Of course, the coal counties have no history of voting on economics, nope, none at all.